As my first high-end whistle, I recently got a Burke Al Pro D and am rather disappointed considering the price and all the hooplah. I’ve played it quite a lot and the tone is very nice and the first octave is strong and clear, but the hi D with all holes covered is a bit flat and very breathy, approaching a raspy sound even with minimum air volume. Removing the top finger introduces even more of a hollow breathy sound that I don’t like. The high B is very difficult to hit cleanly without really attacking it, forcing the note to stand out too much, especially on slow airs and such. It just doesn’t seem well balanced to me, a bit tempermental and not perfectly in tune with itself, which bothers me the most. Has anyone else experienced anything similar with the Burke Aluminum? Or do I just have a whistle Michael made on a Monday? Or is the Burke a whislte that just takes a lot more getting used to than others? I took it to a session last night where 4 other experienced players were using the same whistle (the main reason I ultimately bought one) and had each one play it. None were impressed and made basically the same comments I’ve made here. One said it seemed much more tempermental than his and not as balanced. As I listened to other very accomplished whistle players play it, it sounded out of tune with itself compared to theirs. I played theirs and they all played better than mine. I ended up using my Susato VSB, Dixon D and a homemade copper D for the remainder of the session with no problems.
This is my first Burke and as I said, disappointing. I realize nothing’s perfect, especially in the field of handmade instruments. Song of the Sea has already offered to swap this Burke with another one, but I don’t know. I’m considering just returning it and trying a Silkstone Alloy D. I’ve heard a couple of them in concerts and they sounded exceptionally well-tuned and balanced with a fine tone. I’d appreciate any opinions and input from Silkstone Alloy players as to how they like (or dislike) them, any quirks, etc.
Ideally, it’d be nice to hear from those who have both and can make a first-hand comparison. Thanks for any input.
I’ve owned both whistles actually… I returned my Burke not for your reasons but because it just didn’t have the “character” that I wanted… My silkstone was my first high end whistle… I sometimes think about getting another one. Tuning is spot on… The C nat is perfect… It’s a bit loud for practicing… But I imagine it would be nice in a session. The low D on it is strong… Of the two, I would definitely choose the Silkstone. The burke that I like better is the newer wide bore brass D. More character than the alloy…
I also own both whistles and here’s where you see how this can be personal taste issue or perhaps inconsistency among different whistles of same key and material from same maker. I think both whistles are terrific. The Burke Al-pro soprano D (with Delrin fipple) remains after several years among my 2 or 3 favorite high D whistles. Easy to play, spot on, consistent tone, good volume. I know it’s a little mellow or “pure” for others, but I like it just fine and find it physically very comfortable to play; therefore I play it more often than my Silkstone. Enjoy. Philo
Your whistle is definitely different alright. I had real problems playing it the other night. I don’t think it’s a BAD whistle - it sounds good and plays in tune, but it’s very touchy as far as breath requirements go. It’s very easy to overblow and tough to get much volume out of the lower octave. I guess all hand-made whistles are a little different. It may be that you just need to spend a little more time with it. As far as the high B goes, I think they’re all pretty loud. If you’d like, you can use mine next time (I end up playing mando most of the time anyway). That may help you decide whether to get another Burke or try for something else.
Hmm, that sounds like a challenge rather than a question…
At any rate, it is my understanding that Michael makes extensive use of CNC Machining in the production of his whistles. I’m sure he’ll correct me here if I’m wrong.
I suspect this thread may turn into a debate on the definition of “hand made”…
Send it back to where you bought it for swap or better yet back to Mike Burke for revoicing. Tell them what you want. I’m sure things can be worked out. From my experience Burkes are excellent whistles. You may just have a dud.
On 2002-06-29 11:07, Loren wrote:
Hmm, that sounds like a challenge rather than a question…
At any rate, it is my understanding that Michael makes extensive use of CNC Machining in the production of his whistles. I’m sure he’ll correct me here if I’m wrong.
I suspect this thread may turn into a debate on the definition of “hand made”…
Loren
Sorry you took my post as a “challenge” Loren. Like I said I just wanted a bit more detail on why you feel the way you do. Believe it or not I have a good deal of respect for your opinions on the qualities of particular whistles. I just thought that giving more detail on your feelings about this would be…well…more educational to myself and the messageboard. Although Michael may use CNC Machining certainly final tweaks such as the bore perturbations, etc. are not done by a machine and have to be done by hand. Perhaps a debate on the definition of “hand made” isn’t a bad thing. Also in this light what do you know about Sindt manufacture? Are his headjoints made with as much “machine” help as Burkes?
Cheers,
David
Afterthought: It seems to me that use of CNC machining could aid in producing a more consistent product. Perhaps some of our resident whistlesmiths would care to comment.
[ This Message was edited by: Feadan on 2002-06-29 12:05 ]
I’m not terribly interested in debating the definition of hand made, or anything else for that matter - my days debating things into the ground on this message board are, generally speaking, long gone. I prefer to spend the time practicing now. However, I can help with more details regarding my intitial comment, the following are Michael Burke’s own words, reposted from another thread: http://chiffboard.mati.ca/viewtopic.php?topic=560&forum=1&start=15
Quote from Michael :
Perhaps I should explain the steps of producing my whistles here.
A.Parts are machined using CNC to precise tolerances
B.Parts are polished and assembled by an employee
C.Whistles are tuned and voiced by my apprentice
D.I final voice and check and sign every instrument before shipping.
So David, to me, this is primarily a machine made, and hand assembled whistle - very different (not better or worse) than what people like Fred Rose, Glenn Schultz, Colin Goldie and the like are doing. I see Mike as a wonderful engineer of high quality whistles, but not as a master craftsman handmaking fine instruments. Again, nothing against Mike here, I’ve said many times that I think he builds fantastic whistles, I particularly like his Brass Soprano whistles, I just don’t see them as primarily “handmade” instruments.
Thanks Loren. This is just the kind of detail I was hoping for in my first post. It makes it quite understandable why you feel the way you do. From this I would certainly have to agree that Michael’s whistle are not as “hand-made” as many others. However personally I would hesitate in using the phrase “primarily machine made”. Although the CNC machine is used to manufacture parts it looks like there is still a good deal of handwork involved in assembly, voicing, etc. I too am a fan of the soprano models I have played. I love my E whistle. Haven’t sampled any lower keys yet. I also have no experience with the aluminum models. Right now I am trying to make up my mind about selling off some whistles & pipes in order to obtain some of the less popular keys that Michael makes (C#,B, Ab, F#, etc.).
Cheers,
David
[ This Message was edited by: Feadan on 2002-06-29 13:01 ]
DRC: If you purchased this whistle from Patti, at Song of the Sea, your best and fastest bet is to return it and try a second Burke AlPro. Mike will, of course, re-voice, but the fastest first step is Song of the Sea. As you are probably aware, they are very good people.
I use a set of Burke AlPros with my band, and love 'em.
Cheers.
Byll
I guess “handmade” was a poor choice of wording on my part. I didn’t mean to imply that they were made mano-a-tubing, just that each instrument had some individual tweeking and voicing rather than being stamped out by a giant cookie-cutter.
Thanks for all the replies! I received a reply from a Burke player on another forum and he said be sure the o-ring is positioned properly since one he had purchased a year ago had a dislodged o-ring. I cheked this morning and guess what…NO O-RING at all!! I called Song of the Sea and asked them to check a few of the other Hi D AlPros they had just recieved, and they were missing o-rings as well. Patti wasn’t there but the person I spoke to was shocked since all of the Burkes are supposed to have o-rings. He said they receive one shipment a year from Michael and apparently he’s been overworked and obviously missed the o-ring installation step. Song of the Sea is great to work with and asked me to definitely return the whistle and they’d have Patti go through them all to find me a good one…hoepfully with an o-ring. So I’ll call on Monday to make sure they even have one with an o-ring. Thing is, if this particular batch was rushed and not up to normal Burke quality, I may be better off with a Silkstone or something else and wait for the next batch of Burkes. I may even try Burke’s Brass Session Pro this time since I prefer a more traditional sound and more volume anyway. Wonder if any of those have o-rings. Hmmmm. O well, if the next Burke isn’t any better, at least I tried and can return it and go on to something else.
MikeClem: Nice to hear from you and I really enjoyed the session Thurs. Looking forward to the next one. Maybe I’ll have a few of the tunes learned by then. As an AlPro Hi D player youself, and having played this one, thanks for verifying that I’m not crazy! Also appreciate the offer to play yours at the next session. Take care.
Thanks for all the replies! I received a reply from a Burke player on another forum and he said be sure the o-ring is positioned properly since one he had purchased a year ago had a dislodged o-ring. I cheked this morning and guess what…NO O-RING at all!! I called Song of the Sea and asked them to check a few of the other Hi D AlPros they had just recieved, and they were missing o-rings as well. Patti wasn’t there but the person I spoke to was shocked since all of the Burkes are supposed to have o-rings. He said they receive one shipment a year from Michael and apparently he’s been overworked and obviously missed the o-ring installation step. Song of the Sea is great to work with and asked me to definitely return the whistle and they’d have Patti go through them all to find me a good one…hoepfully with an o-ring. So I’ll call on Monday to make sure they even have one with an o-ring. Thing is, if this particular batch was rushed and not up to normal Burke quality, I may be better off with a Silkstone or something else and wait for the next batch of Burkes. I may even try Burke’s Brass Session Pro this time since I prefer a more traditional sound and more volume anyway. Wonder if any of those have o-rings. Hmmmm. O well, if the next Burke isn’t any better, at least I tried and can return it and go on to something else.
MikeClem: Nice to hear from you and I really enjoyed the session Thurs. Looking forward to the next one. Maybe I’ll have a few of the tunes learned by then. As an AlPro Hi D player youself, and having played this one, thanks for verifying that I’m not crazy! Also appreciate the offer to play yours at the next session. Take care.
You see what I mean David; It would be difficult to turn out a whole “batch” of hand made whistles with a very important part missing, assembly line work on the other hand… And getting back to the “Hand Voiced” bit; if Mike truly hand voiced these instruments, there’s no way a whole bunch of them (missing the O-Rings) would have gotten by him - the whistles just won’t play or sound right with air leaking out of the tuning slide. It’s hard to imagine Mike wouldn’t have noticed immediately if he had actually played these whistles and been doing some final work to them himself.
You can delete posts you know. Just click on the “Edit” button and then check the “Delete” box when the next screen comes up (don’t forget to enter your userID and password)
Concerning the missing O-rings. I received a D and a low G from this same batch.After reading this I checked mine. When I opened the D,I did not see a ring either. Then I checked the G. I needed a flashlight but I did find a black O-ring inside. I double checked the D and after much looking found a light colored or possibly clear O-ring which blended in with the metal (especially when covered with grease).At first I thought this ring was just a small ledge and I had to give it a slight prod with a small tool to make sure it was indeed an O-ring.Maybe your eyes are better than mine but this light O-ring could easily be overlooked.
Now back to the original topic. I have both the Silkstone Alloy and the Burke Al-Pro. When the Burke first arrived I liked the Silkstone just a little bit better but now I am starting to favor the Burke. As someone said earlier the Silkstone tuning is spot on. The Burke is not as close but is still not bad. The F# is 10-15 cents off but can be blown into tune. I would recommend either whistle but at $30.00 less I think the Burke is a better buy.
John