Still Waiting for my Burke! Updated!

Whistle
1

I appreciate the feedback that everyone has contributed. One of the suggestions was that I contact Mr. Burke and ask. I had done that before seeking feedback on this board.

I do not wish to flame anyone but I feel this is important to discuss. It is important to others who are planning whistle purchases to know what they can expect in dealing with particular whistlesmiths. Let me lay the facts on the line and you can form your own opinions.

July 17 – After e-mail discussions with Michael Burke I decided to order the “Narrow Bore Brass Pro D” which he informed me was in stock. Paid in full via credit card. Mr. Burke responded and told me the whistle would be shipped in a couple of days.

July 24 – After waiting a week for my in-stock whistle (I only live a few hours north), I wrote Mr. Burke to ask when the whistle was shipped so I would know when to expect it. I received no response to this correspondence.

July 29 – Almost two weeks after ordering I wrote again expressing concern that the shipment may have been lost. Mr. Burke responded stating the whistle would ship in six weeks – it was not currently in stock :confused: He offered to substitute the wide bore and ship immediately as it was in stock. I agreed to this, as I was to attend a session on Aug. 3rd and thought 5 days would be plenty of time to ship the whistle.

August 2 – I wrote Mr. Burke to see when the whistle was shipped. Receiving no response, I was unable to attend the session (my Chieftain was not performing up to par and my only other whistle is a Walton which sounds horrid in the lower register).

August 5 – I wrote again to see if the whistle had shipped.

August 6 – Mr. Burke replied that he thought He had shipped it but he would double check.

August 7 – I e-mailed to ask if he had reviewed his shipping record.

August 8 – I reminded Mr. Burke he had still not replied about checking his records. He replied stating whether or not he shipped, he would send a new whistle out the next day August 9th (plenty of time for the session on the 16th, I thought). I wrote back and thank him.

August 15 – A week after Mr. Burke stated he would ship the second whistle, I wrote to inform him I had not received it (I tweaked my Chieftain to make it playable for the session on the 16th).

August 16 – Not having heard from Mr. Burke, I posted my original message here. I went to the session and had a grand time – although no one got to hear my new Burke whistle :frowning: When I got home I had a message form Mr. Burke who apologized and stated personal reasons for not shipping my whistle. He stated that he had sent it Express Mail, at no charge and that I would have the whistle by noon the following day (August 17).

August 17 – It is after 7pm – no whistle. If he is going to the Milwaukee Irish Fest, he’ll have to pass by my house to get there (I live a flute’s throw away from I-39) – Hey! I think I have a new e-mail to write :wink:

After all this, I am still excited about receiving my Burke – please don’t label me. I hope this adds something more than a rant to this whistle community.

Peace,
Kiri








Listen to Miller’s Crossing at http://besonic.com/crossing


[ This Message was edited by: Kiri on 2001-08-18 11:55 ]

2

Kiri,

I totally understand your frustration but what’s the use of ranting.
Try to keep things in perspective. We are not talking about a Pacemaker here or any life saving device. A whistle no matter how great is still a whistle.
You are experiencing the other side of the coin, one side being that you deal first hand with a great craftsman, the other being you have no control about the delivery.
But in the end you will still have one-of-a-kind whistle.

Peace

S.




\

Eagles may fly high but otters never get sucked into jet engines.

[ This Message was edited by: Otter on 2001-08-17 21:05 ]

3

Kiri,

I didn’t take your most recent post as a rant. I think it makes perfect sense for people to state both their positive and negative experiences here. Honestly, I can’t for my life understand why so many people on this message board get worked up every time someone posts something less than flattering about a whistle maker, vendor, or their products.

Much as I’d like to sometimes, I don’t go around telling folks here to pipe down every time one or more people go on heaping a sickening amount of praise on products and people that I’ve had bad experiences with - so why should anyone get on Kiri’s case?

Sheesh, how about a little tolerance for people with different viewpoints? Not everyone was raised to “Say something nice or nothing at all” you know. For crying out loud, if no one ever complained about poor products and services, we’d rarely ever see any improvement. In fact, that’s exactly what’s happened with some of these whistle makers: Many people are afraid to post their negative experiences here for fear of pissing off Dale, the whistle makers and/or other people on the board. Hence, certain makers never take steps to improve their often crappy customer service.

In my opinion, the most selfish people on this message board are the ones who don’t warn others about substandard products or services simply because they want to remain in the good graces of Dale, the whistle makers or the message board moral majority. Shame on you all - we should be looking out for each other. The whistle makers are professionals and they can take care of themselves.

Well, that’s it for MY rant for the moment. I’ll put the soap box away and climb into my nomex fireproof undies now. Let’s see, where’s my fire extinguisher, I’m sure I’ll be needing it shortly…

Loren
P.S. Oh yeah, one other thing: Why do people have to take the hotly debated topics here so personally? So many people take message board replies as personal attacks when we’re merely debating philosophy and ethics. Oh, never mind - I think I just answered my own question.

Okay, back to searching for the fire extinguisher…



[ This Message was edited by: Loren on 2001-08-17 22:58 ]

4

Ah yes, the wait is long, but the whistle is worth it. My opinion of course.

Tots

5

This is a tough issue to deal with, but I’m afraid I have to agree with Loren. Loren, as “ugly” as your “rant” just was, I think it is something that had to be said.

I won’t order from the House of Musical Traditions anymore because of lies and unkept promises. I ordered a Clare 2 piece, and Dixon Tunable Piccolo online. I wait over two weeks and then call. They tell me “Oh, it is in stock and will go out today.” Ten days later, a different person says, “the Clare’s are on back order, but we are expecting it any day now.” Two weeks later they tell me it they still have no Clares. I ask them if they have the Dixon piccolo in stock. “Yes.” I give up on the Clare, and say just send me the Dixon piccolo. Another two weeks pass, and I finally get a package from HMT. It contains Not a tunable D piccolo, but a tunable Dixon whistle! I subsequently learn from the good people on this list that the piccolo is not the best way to learn flute, and I REALLY LOVE the Dixon High D whistle, but the point is, I don’t trust theose people anymore, and I will never order from them again.

If someone says something is in stock, and it isn’t, then they are lying. Plain and simple. Or if something is in stock,and you promise it to one person, and then someone else walks in, and you give it away, then to me that indicates to me a big lack of integrity. And the excuse about dealing with artists and craftsmen doesn’t cut it either - I would still expect them to have a little integrity and responsibility too. Big businesses can get away with poor customer relations from time to time, but small businessmen without integrity don’t last long.

If a manufacturer can’t keep up with demand, they should quit taking orders. I know some of the makers do just that. They close off their lists and take no new orders. And don’t ignore your customers - if they try to contact you and get no response, even if there is a good reason, it doesn’t look good. It makes people wonder. It turns people off and away. I am already leary of at least one maker, whose whistles I was considering.

All kidding about Whoa aside, I really don’t have an unlimited budget, and $100 or $200 or $300 is a big deal to me. When I give someone that kind of money, craftsman or not, I expect a little accountability.

Some day I am going to have a custom mandolin made by an exellent craftsman up on the north coast of California. It is going to cost a great deal more than even a Copeland or Overton would cost. I am going to have wait at least six months or more from the time I place my order and pay until I have it in my hands. It will be worth the wait. This individual makes no more instruments than he can resonalbly handle, and has been quick to answer all my trivial little questions - questions I have asked long before I have even placed an order or given him any money. This guy has my respect.

Blaine

6

Hey Loren,

You said “Sheesh, how about a little tolerance for people with different viewpoint?”
Hummm… is this all talk?
I still think Kiri’s tirade going-over each day in detail-was pointless. She should have sent this to Mike Burke, not to us.
However I was not getting on her case and I think she understood that.
Now I can’t say that I am usually concern whether I am pissing people off or not (apparently I pissed you off !) neither was I raised to “say something nice or nothing at all”. I just don’t think this is worth getting all worked up about. (MY opinion)

Hey man, go and buy your whistles at Walmart.
The service will be immpecable.

Sibyle

PS. find that fire extinguisher yet?

7

Sibyle,

Pissed? Me? Not at all. I was simply commenting on a topic I’m passionate about. Folks on the message board seem to often take my comments as coming from a place of anger or hostility. They are confusing my passion with anger, there’s a big difference.

I care about what goes on here, and I care about the people that visit this board with a genuine interest in all things whistle related.
It’s my opinion that as experienced contributors we have a responsibility to the constant stream of “newbies” that come through the doors looking for advice. I think one of those responsibilities is to warn them about vendors, whistle makers, or products that may cause them grief. Had I known for example that Blain was considering purchasing anything from House of Musical Traditions, I would have warned him, citing my own bad experiences, plus the complaints of others. If he decided to go ahead and purchase from them anyway, that’s cool, at least he would have been making an informed decision. Instead, he got a nasty surprise.

I think we do a great disservice to the new whistle enthusiasts on the list when we don’t post our negative experiences here - we allow them to suffer needlessly just as we did. That’s not the way I was taught to treat the people I care for.

I’m certainly not suggesting that everytime someone doesn’t get a whistle when they expect it, that they should publicly “Slam” the maker or supplier. To the contrary, I always attempt to contact the person I’m purchasing from and try to work things out before posting to the message board. I believe most other people do the same, it’s just commons sense. OTH, Kiri’s detailed description at the start of this thread is helpful because it shows us just how much trouble she’s (?) gone through before “going public”. In this case she’s clearly given Mike more than enough opportunity to make things right. If I were in the market for a Burke whistle right now, I’d certainly want to know this type of stuff is going on, I imagine I’m not the only one.

Blaine,

Sorry Dude, I would have warned you if I’d know you were planning to buy from HMT. I won’t go into the details of my experiences with them, but suffice it to say you are not alone. We’ve seen a number of complaints about their mail order dept. here on the board, and I’ve heard more horror stories off-list as well. At least there are two of us around to warn others now…

Cheers,

Loren
P.S. Sibyle, yes, I found the extinguisher. Got it right here with me, in fact I used it to put out some flames a few moments ago :slight_smile:

8

Yes, I too have no wish to be negative but I have had a couple of very dissapointing encounters with whistle makers. And I agree with Loren that people should be free to express both their negative and positive experiences with whistles on this board. That is what makes the information on this board helpful. I know it is difficult when one is upset to not sound like “ranting” but if somebody feels unfairly treated and wants to share that, as long as they are polite about it I for one, don’t have a problem.
Something to remember is that some of the best whistle makers are getting on in years, have suffered major health problems,or have other things going on in their lives that may prevent them from being on top of things regarding whistle making - which is often a hobby. Yes it is very frustrating but that’s the way it is.
Personally I don’t think Kiri should be so concerned about this matter taking only one month. It has been nearly two years and I am still waiting for one situation to be resolved. I waited 2 years on another makers list only to be out of town when he phoned me. When I called back 3 days later, he had given my order to somebody else and put me at the bottom of the waiting list! Another 2+ years!! So, unfortunately,these things
happen.
Sue

9

Loren,

If I did confuse passion with anger I apologize and it is a bit ironic because often enough people do the same with me…I am a passionate scorpio and French on top of that.(We French like to speak our mind in a pretty straightforward manner and with a little passion added, some people misinterpret the delivery. It’s a culture thing).
Yes, we should warn others about bad experiences especially if they are consistant.
I, like you got a wrong order by the HMT: ordering a Tony Dixon Flute, I received instead a Low D whistle. It turned out that I liked it, so I kept it and ordered a flute head later. The point is that it was the wrong order.
However with Michael Burke, I have always had good experiences even if the delivery was not quite on time.

Kiri,

Should you not receive your Burke soon and you need it for a coming session, I’ll send you mine fedex-overnight if you promise to send it back to me


Now…if you’ll excuse me, I have an Irish fest to go to.

Sibyle

Eagles may fly high but otters never get sucked into jet engines.

[ This Message was edited by: Otter on 2001-08-18 11:25 ]

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I don’t often get involved in these arguments, but they do seem to take place with some regularity on here.

“I still think Kiri’s tirade going-over each day in detail-was pointless.”

I thought Kiri’s method of presenting us with the facts and letting us come to our own conclusions was THE point.

I really enjoy this message board, but the one thing I’ve always found a bit distasteful about it is the way many people jump all over those who have something negative to say about whistles/makers/service. This board is exactly the place where people should be sharing that kind of info, good AND bad.

my $.02
-brett

11

UPDATE!

I received my whistle today!

Michael also wrote me and apologized again for the botched shipping. To make amends he offered me a substantial discount on my next order. I will probably take him up on that offer as this whistle is gorgeous and plays beautifully.

I was tinkering with the notion of removing the original post. I never intended to flame anyone. Michael Burke was always polite and cordial in his correspondence. I’ve not implied anything incendiary about his person. In fact, he is amiable – and an excellent craftsmen.

I don’t mind waiting – or even delays. What got to me were the promises that were not met. First about what was in stock, then the several promises of delivery.

All is well that ends well, but it is best to be forewarned.


[ This Message was edited by: Kiri on 2001-08-18 12:31 ]

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On 2001-08-18 11:24, Otter wrote:
Kiri,

Should you not receive your Burke soon and you need it for a coming session, I’ll send you mine fedex-overnight if you promise to send it back to me

Thank you for the offer!

Peace,
Kiri

13

I thank Kiri for the details. If I go through half of what she did, I’ll yank the order and take my business elsewhere.

One point, though, Kiri. Please clarify. You said you paid in advance with a credit card. Please tell me that your card wasn’t billed until AFTER the merchandise shipped.

14

Kiri ~ I’m glad you finally rcvd your Burke…and I agree..it’s not the wait…but the promises not kept..especially when you were looking fwd to it for a session.’
I would have sent you a personal msg but your email isn’t posted. Just curious as to where you live a stone’s throw from I-39? You must be somewhere near my “sumotherplace”. You can email me if you care to share that bit of information.
Enjoy! Gm

15

On 2001-08-18 01:07, Otter wrote:
Hey Loren,

…Hey man, go and buy your whistles at Walmart. The service will be immpecable.

Sibyle

I work for Wal-Mart (Well, a subsidiary anyway) and I can tell you DO NOT ORDER WHISTLES FROM THEM! They’ll give you a Tuba and then feign supprise when you can’t play it! And it’ll be made of cheap plastic from China too!

In all seriousness, and to stay with the original point of this thread, I own a Burke Brass Pro Session (WBB) and I LOVE it. BUT, I received mine from a dear friend on this board, and not Mike at all.

All of the emails I’ve exchanged with Mike with questions about his whistles have been short and to the point, yet always exactly what I was asking about, and timely. In most cases he responded within a couple of days at the longest.

Having heard the troubles several of you have had in contacting him over the last few months does indeed make me a little hesitant to order anything from him at present. I’ll stick to Hoovers for now I suppose.

At any rate, I DO know that Mike’s whistles are top rate and you’ll be hard pressed to find a sweeter one by any maker, regardless of price, materials, or lead time.

Good luck, and I do hope your whistle arrives soon!

Brian~
http://www.mp3.com/blee

[ This Message was edited by: Brian Lee on 2001-08-19 12:43 ]

16

yeah, but you’ll get that tuba dirt-cheap because prices are falling… :slight_smile:

But, back to Burke. I ordered a couple of Aluminum whistles from Burke last week because I like the brighter tone. However, it seems from reading the boards that brass is the favored Burke. Am I mistaken or has he been making the brass longer?

-Frank

17

yeah, but you’ll get that tuba dirt-cheap because prices are falling… :slight_smile:

But, back to Burke. I ordered a couple of Aluminum whistles from Burke last week because I like the brighter tone. However, it seems from reading the boards that brass is the favored Burke. Am I mistaken or has he been making the brass longer?

-Frank