Ok, campers, bad news from my front. Turns out the whistle set I got is a bit of a wash. I could go into a lot of detail about what all is wrong, but suffice it to say that we’re sending the set back and hoping for a refund as soon as possible (which I’m not too sure about, considering how long it took to get the set in the first place).
sigh.
sign me sad
Gee Stimps, I dunno…
While I’m generally the first one to step up and gripe if I have a problem, it just doesn’t seem right not to say why you’re unhappy, if you’re gonna post a “negative review”.
Maybe I’m off here, but since problems can either be related to defects (something no one would be happy with) or personal preference (just a matter of taste), it seems to me that it’s a little unfair to the whistle maker (John in this case) to simply post a message saying that you’re unhappy with his product, without at least giving a reason. You see what I mean? Don’t get me wrong, I’m not slamming you here, I’m just asking you to consider if what I’ve said makes any sense.
Peace,
Loren
On 2001-08-23 23:30, Loren wrote:
Maybe I’m off here, but since problems can either be related to defects (something no one would be happy with) or personal preference (just a matter of taste), it seems to me that it’s a little unfair to the whistle maker (John in this case) to simply post a message saying that you’re unhappy with his product, without at least giving a reason. You see what I mean? Don’t get me wrong, I’m not slamming you here, I’m just asking you to consider if what I’ve said makes any sense.
Hey Loren =)
What you say does make sense, however, you’re assuming that I haven’t talked to John about what’s wrong, and that would not be the case – or at least my opinions about it have been sent to him via my partner who bought them for me in the first place. I’d rather leave it private between Mr. McHaffie and us. If people want a private opinion about the whistles I got (which might not be representative of all the whistles he makes), then that’s cool too. Does that make sense? =)
stimps
Stimps,
I gotta agree with Loren here… While I certainly respect your right to be dissatisfied with a whistle purchase - and saying so on this board (I have complained here about more whistles than I can remember!) - I really don’t see the purpose of posting your complaint on the board without giving us any details. The way I read your post now, all you are really saying is “The McHaffie whistles I received really sucked”.
Now, I understand it if you don’t want to appear to be slamming McHaffie, but I really feel you are doing so all the same, albeit in an implicit and innuendo-filled manner. I for one would appreciate some details on just what was the matter with these whistles.
Jens
[ This Message was edited by: Jens_Hoppe on 2001-08-24 08:42 ]
Hi Stimps
Actually, I wasn’t assuming anything really. I do understand what you’re saying. The point I was trying to make is just that I’d hate to see people start posting messages to the board stating “I’ve returned my X whistle because it sucks”. As you can see, that’s the impression Jens got from your post, even though you didn’t use those words.
Heck, I don’t want to make a big deal out of this point. I suppose it’s a judgement call each poster has to make. Still, I’m guessing you’ve got a lot of people wondering exactly what’s up with those whistles…
Cheers,
Loren
Yep. Makes me not want to buy one. And I was considering getting a set. You certainly couldn’t have any worse an impact on John if you actually gave us the details.
I’d like to know some details too. I ordered a McHaffie whistle a month and a half ago, and I’m getting worried from what I’ve already heard on this board over the past few weeks. Should I cancel my order?
Dave
I wish I could post a review of my McHaffie whistles, but I can’t, because after over 5 months of waiting for my C/D set, they still have not arrived. When I ordered, the wait was posted as “4-6 weeks”.
Okay, being late on delivery is bad, but not terrible. The part that is really upsetting is that I have not heard from John since July 11th, despite having sent him roughly an email a week during this period. I have pretty much given up on ever seeing the whistles. And if I can’t get answers to my emails, I suspect a refund is not too likely either.
John, if you read this, I would love to know what is going on with my order. I have tried both email addresses: customers@mchaffiewhistles.com and john@mchaffiewhistles.com. Neither one has gotten me a reply. Please let me know what is going on. You can post here or email me at the address below.
Eric
EWolfgang@AOL.com
I support Stimps’s decision not to post details on the board. If anyone wants details about McHaffie whistles, feel free to e-mail me.
Jessie
I think that if someone is only going to tell half the story then they should keep it to themselves. It is unfair to the manufacturer to do this without giving the details. If I was in the market for one of these whistles it would have me thinking twice, whereas if I knew the exact problems then I could make a much more informed decision.
Cheers,
Gerry
To help Stimps and put this to rest:
In my experience, the “adjustable” top part of the mouthpiece moves freely and is extremely awkward. If you do, for a moment, find a decent mouthpiece location, it is quiet and unstable. The bottom hole is not in the right place, causing the whistle to be unplayably out of tune with itself no matter how you play it. Is that enough information?
I feel very uneasy posting this.
Jessie
I think it’s pretty unfair of the manufacturer to keep people waiting months for whistles that had a 4-6 week wait announced, not respond to email, finally ship disappointing whistles, and then fall off the earth when it’s time to request a refund.
I also think it’s pretty unfair to rip into posters here for trying to be polite about their dissatisfaction instead of bothering to send them a private message asking them what’s up.
Sheesh, guys, call off the mob already. You didn’t have any problem with my](http://chiffboard.mati.ca/viewtopic.php?topic=295&forum=1%22%3Emy) detail-free claim of disappointment or with JessieK’s](http://chiffboard.mati.ca/viewtopic.php?topic=295&forum=1%22%3EJessieK%27s) scathing but detail-free review or with JessieK’s](http://chiffboard.mati.ca/viewtopic.php?topic=582&forum=1%22%3EJessieK%27s) subtle hint. So what’s the problem now?
After all, the original poster had said a few days ago that she got the whistles and was thrilled, and can’t go back and delete that post. So she says no, ignore that, I’m not thrilled after all. Seems pretty unremarkable to me.
I also think it’s pretty unfair to rip into posters here for trying to be polite about their dissatisfaction instead of bothering to send them a private message asking them what’s up.
Rich, I’m not sure anyone is ‘ripping’ into anyone else here…just giving our opinions as to the method of expressing disatisfaction. I believe they are just as valid as your’s or Jessie’s. Maybe we just missed the other posts!
Cheers
Gerry
I agree…uh…with somebody here! I just encountered a similar incident at the Uilleann piping forum and made a post about it.
People, on this board, are very quick to say what a wonderful whistle they have and point out all the good points about it. But, when people get a bad whistle they are either afraid to tell anyone about it, or say “send me a private email” so I can tell you the truth about how bad it really is!
Good whistlemakers can occasionally make a bad whistle which is OK (I think, as long as they offer repairs, replacements, or refunds). Bad whistlemakers (those who make bad products or that have bad customer service) waste our money that can be used to send to the good whistlemakers.
It doesn’t bother me to read a post that:
I bought an XYZ brand whistle and it sounded horrible. After returning it to the maker they revoiced it and now it sounds wonderful! Everyone spend your money on this whistle!!
What does bother me is:
Don't buy an XYZ brand whistle. To find out why send me a personal email for the details.
…putting away my soapbox now…
*** I AM NOT A LAWYER AND THIS IS NOT LEGAL ADVICE ***
That said, it seems to me that saying bad things about someone, or some product, or some service, in a public forum, and being either unable or unwilling to substantiate them or offer particulars, sounds rather like slander. It can be most troublesome when the “bad things” have to do with business matters and may therefore affect the marketplace. Unless one is willing to tell the whole story, with examples, the better thing would be not to say anything at all.
Anyone who is in business will, soon or late, have to learn how to deal with criticism. How better to learn of deficiencies in the product or service in order to fix them? I see nothing wrong in Jessie K’s post, which states that the tuneable mouthpiece does not function as it should, and that the finger holes are not properly positioned. These are matters that directly affect the playability of the instrument, and such criticism can result in a better product if the manufacturer is alert and conscientious. Further, one presumes that there exist examples with these faults and that therefore the statememts can be independently verified.
Similarly, I see nothing wrong in criticism of service, whether of tardy delivery and broken promises, or of being unavailable to put things right.
Simply saying that “such-and-such a whistle is disappointing,” or that “the service stinks,” and leaving it at that, is neither useful nor proper in my opinion. Either tell the whole story, or none of it.
Just my $0.02. Your mileage may vary.
In the end, you’ll have to read between the lines a bit. All of this hostility against those trying to be cautious or polite or both is just going to end up with them not posting anything at all, which makes the problem of knowing which whistles might not be sure bets even worse.
If someone posts to the board something that they’re afraid might be libelous, and Dale says it should stay, then it stays up until the university’s legal counsel tells me to take it down. But at the same time, if someone doesn’t want to post something because they’re concerned about that issue – frivolous or not – then that’s perfectly fine as well, and if someone wants to handle it privately so as to avoid exposing me to that sort of problems, then I’m very grateful.
But more importantly, if a poster is only comfortable discussing something privately, that’s their decision to make. Show a little respect for their preferences, already, and stop telling people what they are to post on here.
Neil, we have our own lawyer, and we’re not in the United States.
But at the same time, if someone doesn’t want to post something because they’re concerned about that issue – frivolous or not – then that’s perfectly fine as well, and if someone wants to handle it privately so as to avoid exposing me to that sort of problems, then I’m very grateful.
I agree with Rich that if someone is concerned about the legalities of a particular post then they should err on the safe side. However in that case it is probably better not to say anything at all than to only tell half the story which is neither fair to the Manufacturer nor fair to the readers.
Cheers
Gerry
On 2001-08-24 15:07, rich wrote:
Neil, we have our own lawyer, and we’re not in the United States.-Rich
Not a problem, I’m very happy for you.
The statement is an internet expression which has been around for a decade that I know of, and has to do more with the foibles and failings of the legal profession than it does anything else. I used it, as I have in this forum previously, because my observation that saying bad and unsubstantiated things about people in a public forum could be slander might possibly be considered to be legal advice. It is a figure of speech, and nothing else. It certainly had nothing to do with you or your establishment.
Well, geez, I didn’t want to come out being slanderous at all. 
I just wanted to say that I wasn’t happy without having to be specifically cranky about it on the list. I know if I post the things that I find specifically problematic about the set I got, it’s probably going to spawn some angry discussion, and that’s not what I wanted. Sigh.
Well, I’ll be more specific here then.
The Ordering/Shipping process:
The whistles were ordered in April, back when the website said 2-3 week wait for whistles. Yes, there was a break-in, and things were set back. However, after two months of hearing nothing about the whistles, we started writing email about it. Reply was sporadic. The only reliable replies we got happened after we posted about our problems to the forum. In total, we were told that the whistles had been sent five times, and that we just had to be patient (so counting the ones that I actually have, that’s four that are lost in the mail?). I’ve noticed the time on the website change from 2-3 weeks to 4-6 weeks to 2-3 months to 4-6 months as the time it took our whistles to arrive got longer. I find that somewhat upsetting. I understand things taking longer than one wants, but I feel sort of like a guinea pig for the process of learning how to do business. As I’ve said before, I’d have preferred to have had straight up answers (“They won’t be there until late summer” or “it’ll be a few extra months”) than a lot of confusticating. I DO NOT THINK that this was malicious on anyone’s part. I think this is just a process of learning how to conduct business, and I feel that perhaps Mr. M is a bit green on that front, that’s all.
The actual whistles:
The mouthpiece, despite supposedly being coated, tastes foul and like I’ve been sucking on pennies. The copper joint on the other part leaves my hands smelling like pennies. I have heard suggestions like painting them with rubber and stuff, but I’m not about to take a new set of whistles that have supposedly been already coated and do that to them.
I needed incredible hand strength to take the headpieces on and off the tubes. I have lots of instruments that I’ve had to take apart, but this is amazing. Even my partners can’t do it easily, and they’re strong fellers.
The high whistles are very squeaky. The low D sounded like two whistles, one sort of low, one sort of high. I could not eliminate this sort of buzzy addition to it.
When I could tune the low notes to play properly, I could not get the high notes to play properly and vice versa.
I cut myself twice on them, once on a copper mouthpiece corner, and once on a curved edge on the top of a tube.
The volume adjustment actually makes the whistle higher, and I couldn’t get any low notes out at all.
I think that’s about it. If this is too specific for anyone, I’m sorry. I wish more than anyone that after waiting five months that I had opened up the box and found the best whistles ever inside.
If rich or Dale need to remove the post for any reason, just please leave up the first line that I was willing to publically discuss it, so people don’t accuse me of trying to be a jerk or anything. .
stimps
[ This Message was edited by: stimps on 2001-08-24 16:06 ]