Today I attended the Scottish Games in Pleasonton. As I stood in a beer line, I heard beautiful whistle music coming from around the corner. Whoever was playing was very, very good, and the whistle was obviously miked. Finally I couldn’t stand it any more and I left the beer line to go listen. It was a “celtic” band called Craicmore, out of LA. I was intrigued because the whistle being played not only sounded incredible, but it was a beautiful shade of blue. My mind immediately went to the new whistles I’ve been reading about here, the Elfsongs and the Serpents, and I remembered how pretty they looked, and I thought that if they sounded this good, I’d just HAVE to get one. When the band took a break, I went up to talk to the whistler. His fantastic whistle was a Sweetone D which he bought for $10. It was an education for me.
I have read many posts here about the playability, or which pennywhistle sounds better than others, etc. I have always felt that the bottom line on how well you can make the whistle sound/play is really up to your ability. How much you practice with it, etc. I liken it to my ability as a professional photographer. It is not the camera that I use, but the expertise with which I use that camera. It is not the paint the artist uses, but their ability to apply that paint to the canvas.
I have several pennywhistles and flutes from several makers. I love each and everyone of them for different reasons. I use different whistles/flutes for different songs because I like the particular sound of a particular whistle/flute for a particular song. The most expensive pennywhistle I own is a Ralph Sweet and the least expensive is a Meg. I just can’t get myself to purchase a high end whistle, because if I can’t make my Meg sound good, how will I make an expensive whistle sound good. I know that the high end whistles are great, but if I can’t play a decent tune with a low end, owning a high end won’t make any difference. It has to come down to my ability, not the whistle’s.
Craig
On 2002-08-31 21:37, Pywacket wrote:
I have read many posts here about the playability, or which pennywhistle sounds better than others, etc. I have always felt that the bottom line on how well you can make the whistle sound/play is really up to your ability. How much you practice with it, etc. I liken it to my ability as a professional photographer. It is not the camera that I use, but the expertise with which I use that camera. It is not the paint the artist uses, but their ability to apply that paint to the canvas.I have several pennywhistles and flutes from several makers. I love each and everyone of them for different reasons. I use different whistles/flutes for different songs because I like the particular sound of a particular whistle/flute for a particular song. The most expensive pennywhistle I own is a Ralph Sweet and the least expensive is a Meg. I just can’t get myself to purchase a high end whistle, because if I can’t make my Meg sound good, how will I make an expensive whistle sound good. I know that the high end whistles are great, but if I can’t play a decent tune with a low end, owning a high end won’t make any difference. It has to come down to my ability, not the whistle’s.
Craig
Agreed, Craig. That’s why I don’t have WHOA.
Hi, thought I’d add that Pat Collins, Craicmore’s whistle player leads our session at the Celtic Arts center often. Great player and a heck of a nice guy. He’s had that Sweetone for as long as I’ve known him. Of course each whistle is variable, and it’s got the best tone of any Sweetone I’ve heard. I think he tried a Waterweasel for awhile, but it wasn’t a few weeks before it disappeared and his old standard was back. lol
Hey Blackhawk,
I knew I should have gone over today, but I’m going to go tommorow, hopefully they’ll still be there. But I’d be interested in hearing someone play a sweetone well, cause when I play it I loathe the sound. Is there anything else out there worth checking out?
I once added a new (tweaked) fipple to a Generation whistle and ended up with a very good sound, but I’ve never heard a Sweetone that was anywhere close to good. Someone out there appears to have found a good one. Great! That’s a treasure.
On 2002-08-31 23:35, MurphyStout wrote:
Hey Blackhawk,
I knew I should have gone over today, but I’m going to go tommorow, hopefully they’ll still be there. But I’d be interested in hearing someone play a sweetone well, cause when I play it I loathe the sound. Is there anything else out there worth checking out?
Hey Jack, good to see you posting. As to what else to check in the way of music, there’s nobody else with whistles, but if you like fiddle, check out Tempest. But definitely check out that whistler.
As to Sweetones, I have had four, all good. I think partly it’s personal taste, and partly just how well a person plays.
Hey Jack, check out that thread on the Lunasa concert. Wanna join me there? Maybe we can talk Weekenders into joining us.
I have two Sweetones and a Meg.
One Sweetone is really really good, one is pretty good, and the Meg is, I think, the nicest whistles of the three.
I would guess that, like Generations and other mass-produced whistles, they vary widely. (Well, maybe not quite so widely as Generations do, but you take my point, I’m sure.)
Best,
–James
http://www.flutesite.com
I’ve had the opportunity to see Craicmore several times over the past two years around LA and San Diego and I think I know what Pat Collins’ secret is!! He buys blue Sweetones by the case, keeps the best ones for himself, and sells the rest at a tidy profit at the fairs. Wish I could do that with Overtons…
Blackhawk
I love your posting. Much good wisdom there. No matter how good your whistle is, you yourself provide the magic and soul of the music!
A few thoughts of mine on the high end, low end debate! I was always a generation whistle fan. I thought they could do no wrong. Then I started building my own and a whole new world of expression opened up for me. Now I still use the odd generation for a fast song, especially when my whistles aren’t with me but for slow, beautiful songs, they do them no justice. The difference really came home to me one night when a whistle class I was teaching all decided to order whistles. The next week I gave them all their whistles save one person. When they started to play the difference totally blew me away. Instead of the squeaky sound I was used to from them, (they had been playing for only 4 weeks) suddenly my ears didn’t hurt and we all looked at one another. That was when I became convinced.
Another quick reference. I play sax and flute. One day 8 years ago,I was at a friends place and picked up her sax. I played the thing like you wouldn’t believe, I was AMAZING!!! All the struggles I was having was the fault of my instrument, not me. I almost quit the flute for the same reason. I took my sax in, paid $150.00 to get it fixed up and joined my first R&B band.
Too many times students come to me with problems that are fixed by replacing the instrument, this happens with whistles, flutes, guitars you name it. Too often we think that because we are just learning an instrument, we don’t need a good one. Too often people think they have no talent and give up because of a fault in the instrument. You have the same limitations as your instrument! That doesn’t mean you have to pay gazilions for a good one, but when in doubt, have a professional play your instrument, if they can make it sing with relative ease, then keep practicing, if not, perhaps it is time for a new one or to get yours fixed!
On 2002-09-01 02:25, Sandy Jasper wrote:
BlackhawkI love your posting. Much good wisdom there. No matter how good your whistle is, you yourself provide the magic and soul of the music!
I like that, Sandy, “the magic and soul of the music”…that IS the essence of why we play!
I don’t disagree with the rest of your post, either, Sandy. I own a Burke, 2 Sindts, etc, as well as Sweetones, Gens, Clares, and Feadogs. I enjoy collecting whistles as well as playing them. The thing that really hit home to me today was what is possible on an average whistle when it’s well played. It was an inspiration to me. I don’t hang around with other whistlers, so I tend to forget just how great they can sound when I’m not the one doing the playing.
It reminded me of the oft told story about the auction of the old fiddle. The auctioneer couldn’t even get an opening bid because the fiddle was so old and scratched up. Finally an old man got up and walked to the front, picked it up and began playing beautifully. When he was done the bidding was fierce, and the thing that made difference was the touch of the master.
On 2002-09-01 02:25, Sandy Jasper wrote:
BlackhawkI love your posting. Much good wisdom there. No matter how good your whistle is, you yourself provide the magic and soul of the music!
A few thoughts of mine on the high end, low end debate! I was always a generation whistle fan. I thought they could do no wrong. Then I started building my own and a whole new world of expression opened up for me. Now I still use the odd generation for a fast song, especially when my whistles aren’t with me but for slow, beautiful songs, they do them no justice. The difference really came home to me one night when a whistle class I was teaching all decided to order whistles. The next week I…
Some folks here may think it bad form for a whistle producer to deride another producer in order to promote their own product.Generations do justice to just about anything in my opinion,even slow airs. peace,Mike
Well, I do have to say one thing though. I have played guitar for over 11 years now up to the semi-professional level (if not the prof. level) and although YES, the player is the ultimate person to make an instrument sound good, the instrument goes a long way in helping the musician to play good too. I have given many a guitar lesson to people of all ages, and one thing people always want to say is, “Well, I think were going to get little Johnny a inexpensive instrument first, and then if he likes it, sticks to it, and gets decent we will put more money into his instrument.”
The problem is, is that unless you have much Irish luck poured upon you, it is very unlikely that a cheap guitar will promote and encourage playing and skill in a new player.
Now true, whistle ARE differnt-much simpler and easier to learn to play BUT you know as well as I do the likelyhood of picking up a handfull of “cheap” whistles (which I still love to buy!) and having only one in the whole bunch play without squeaking or bleeding. Now, pick up a handful of high-end whistles- I bet you my Chieftain Low F that everyone in the handful of the high-end whistles will sound better even as a begginer plays it!
Just a thought!
Eric T
Jacksonville FL USA
[ This Message was edited by: Tradman on 2002-09-01 09:22 ]
Sandy, I’ve had a similar experience. When I first started trying to play Whistle, we bought a Waltons Brass D at a Feis my daughter was dancing in.
After a couple of months, I still had a difficult time hitting certain notes without a horrible squeak. I then ordered a Sweetone, Feadog, and Walton’s Little Black. (all in D)
My daughter tried the Sweetone for a while, and then lost interest. I tried it and found it more difficult to play than any of the others.
The Waltons LB was the easiest to play and had the fewest squeaks. However, my son claimed it and wouldn’t let anyone else play ‘his whistle.’ Something about sharing saliva with his dad and sister bothered him. 
I switched to the Feadog, and after the blue tack tweak, it sounded better but still had issues on C.
Then at St. Patrick’s day, one of the other Dads from my daughters Irish Dance school played a couple of tunes on a Susato. I bought a set of the D, Eb, and C. It is the easiest to play of any whistle I have tried. While some of the notes do sound a bit ‘recorderish’, it has a much better sound than any of the others (to my ear).
Before getting the Susato, I was beginning to wonder if I could ever learn to play without squeaking. Now that is no longer a concern as I have since gone back and tried to play the other whistles again with better success.
My conclusion is that some makes of whistles are more forgiving than others. As a beginner, the more forgiving the instrument the better off you are as you master the basics (fingering, force of the air stream, etc.)
Once you have that down, then you are more aware of little nuances of air stream force and direction that you didn’t notice before. Therefore you are better able to hit the note ‘dead on’ for that particular instrument.
As with most things, you get what you pay for. A more expensive instrument (generally) is going to play better.
However, when our piano tuner comes over, he can make our cheap estate auction piano sound fantastic!!
-gary
[ This Message was edited by: snoogie on 2002-09-01 09:43 ]
Although I do agree it’s the music and the player that counts first and foremost, I also agree that it’s fun to collect whistles and try out various ones and ultimately it doesn’t matter what whistle you’re playing. At the same time, it’s logical that those that are so inclined will pick out favorites that complement them well (whether this is subjective is no matter). Snobbery as to what type or how expensive a whistle is just as silly as reverse snobbery in saying that people are foolish to spend money on various high end whistles. As long as someone is not deluding him or herself or trying to imply to others that just because they have many high end whistles he or she is a player of some particular level of talent, there’s no harm and lot’s of fun.
As I posted in a recent other thread, I collect and enjoy different whistles, esp. high end at this point, but also play every single day (this is not a comment as to my prowess).
I have various moods and frankly lately I’ve been saying to myself quietly over and over in the back of my mind, ok everybody be quiet, save up, wait and get just one Copeland soprano D and forget about the rest of it!
Also, when I pick up the new Elfsong , I actually do feel a bit of the Lord of the Rings, a wonderful feeling!
So all enjoy and best regards,
Philo
Some folks here may think it bad form for a whistle producer to deride another producer in order to promote their own product.Generations do justice to just about anything in my opinion,even slow airs. peace,Mike
Mike.
In my post, I was speaking more as a teacher than a whistle maker, hence I left the name of my product out of the posting! But just to reiterate, it is not Generations I am so concerned about as I find most of them very playable and my FAVORITE low end whistle. My concern is in students buying the first thing they see at a fair, second hand store or music store. I myself played the whistle for 2 years before being given a whistle that didn’t play well. Unfortunatly it seems that approx 1 in 3 of my students come to class’s with whistles that physically can’t get notes they should be able to and most of the students are blaming themselves!
The last time I taught a class I came to it with a dozen cheap whistles to sell to my students. Ones I believed had a good quality control. It is more important to me that a beginner have a functional whistle and get the joy from his or her music than it is for me to sell mine. As a believer in such, I have given away more whistles to children and beginners than I have sold.
Sandy
On 2002-08-31 22:34, lawhistle wrote:
Hi, thought I’d add that Pat Collins, Craicmore’s whistle player leads our session at the Celtic Arts center often. Great player and a heck of a nice guy. He’s had that Sweetone for as long as I’ve known him. Of course each whistle is variable, and it’s got the best tone of any Sweetone I’ve heard. I think he tried a Waterweasel for awhile, but it wasn’t a few weeks before it disappeared and his old standard was back. lol
I wanted to bring this thread up again to let anyone in the L.A. area know that Pat, who was a much loved friend and session leader here in Los Angeles, passed away unexpectedly last week. Anyone in the area, the memorial session for him will be at the Celtic Arts Center, Monday night at 8pm. Pat was the kind of leader every session needs, he was always considerate to everyone who came to play, and encouraged all to participate and we will miss him so very much.
Gotta respond to this one, Mike:
Some folks here may think it bad form for a whistle producer to deride another producer in order to promote their own product.Generations do justice to just about anything in my opinion,even slow airs. peace,Mike
I have recently become friends with Erik Tullberg (Tully whistles) and he gave me an insight into the mind of whistle makers. He said that he used to collect different whistles looking for one that has all the characteristics that suit him. He’d like the head on one, the responsiveness of another, the feel of a third. And he started making his own so he could get what he actually wanted in a whistle.
Now, Erik is a friend of Colin Goldie and he is very proud of his blue Overton low D. He also loves his Overton high D. But, I notice that when Erik plays a tune, he tends to pick up a whistle he made. This is not dissing Colin’s work. I doubt it actually loses Colin any business.
When Sandy mentioned that her own whistles are more expressive than the average Generation, I take it to mean that she prefers the ones she makes. AS SHE SHOULD. I would not buy a whistle from a maker who admits to a preference for a different maker’s product. If the maker isn’t happy with it, why should I expect to be? Sandy isn’t asking us to buy one of hers. And I suspect that anyone who does get one of her whistles already has tried a Generation. I doubt Generation is losing business over this. Their quality control would lose them a lot more business than a whistle maker saying she likes her own whistles better than theirs.
We can be reasonable people without being PC, here. I have several Generation whistles and I do try to play them now and then. I think they suck. I’m not willing to go through a whole box of whistles to find the one that will do what they all are supposed to.
There are stories of folk musicians who can make a pawn-shop junk guitar sound great, but those same players would probably tell a student to start with the best he can afford. Learning to play an instrument is enough work to begin with. There’s no good reason to stack the deck against the student with an instrument that is hard to play well.
-Patrick
On 2002-09-29 23:25, lawhistle wrote:
On 2002-08-31 22:34, lawhistle wrote:
Hi, thought I’d add that Pat Collins, Craicmore’s whistle player leads our session at the Celtic Arts center often. Great player and a heck of a nice guy. He’s had that Sweetone for as long as I’ve known him. Of course each whistle is variable, and it’s got the best tone of any Sweetone I’ve heard. I think he tried a Waterweasel for awhile, but it wasn’t a few weeks before it disappeared and his old standard was back. lolI wanted to bring this thread up again to let anyone in the L.A. area know that Pat, who was a much loved friend and session leader here in Los Angeles, passed away unexpectedly last week. Anyone in the area, the memorial session for him will be at the Celtic Arts Center, Monday night at 8pm. Pat was the kind of leader every session needs, he was always considerate to everyone who came to play, and encouraged all to participate and we will miss him so very much.
Wow, that’s a major shock. I enjoyed his playing so much that day. I was looking forward to hearing him again many times in the years to come. He was younger than me, too.