Strange, I read the “Sad story” of the flute player who had tried to contact Sam Murray about his flute to no avail. This weekend I met a young flute player who was also waiting for her flute, for 4 years now. Anyway would anyone know the price of a new fully keyed flute in blackwood or boxwood from Sam these days? Thanks
Why would anyone wait so long for a flute without any commitment from the maker on how long it takes? That’s nuts, and Sam should be a little ashamed of himself for being in business! I do not care how great a craftsman he is or how good his flutes are. I’m sure there are plenty around just as good or better.
If he makes a commitment, stick to it, and at least communicate back to a buyer if you’ve collected money on any changes to that schedule. And get a life! Learn how to manage your production schedule and your customers. Doesn’t he know that people value his product? Apparently not.
Perhaps I don’t know the facts, or have interpreted them wrong…so if I have publically disparaged a fine businessman and craftsman, I will gladly retract my comments upon evidence that he is not as irresponsible as I have perhaps unfairly characterized him.
But I will tell him…if your taking orders (and money) for an expensive product, communicate with your customers!..or like Michael Copeland wisely did…get a business partner like Jim Rementer who can do that for you.
Get an Olwell!
The wait for a keyed Olwell is at least 3-4 years according Patrick’s own literature, and some say much longer.
Hey, I love Pat’s flutes and wouldn’t want to discourage any one from ordering one - I’m just pointing out that a Keyed Olwell is a long term goal, and won’t much help someone who’s looking to get a keyed flute quickly.
Loren
[ This Message was edited by: Loren on 2002-07-30 09:13 ]
From what I’ve heard Sam Murray’s flutes are much sought after as he has a well founded reputation of making extremely good flutes. So he has of course lots of orders for new flutes, and for doing repairs. Maybe he says yes to too many people, who knows? I’ve also heard that he puts local (Belfast? Irish musicians?) first on the waiting list ahead of orders from outside Ireland. I don’t know if this is true or not? Perhaps it is, as musicians living in Ireland are more likely to turn up on his doorstep wanting their flute to be ready yesterday. Anyway Sam has proven himself to be an excellent craftsman, the demand for his instruments confirms this. So, even if the business side seems disorganised then it’s unfortunately something the customer just has to put up with, and it’s just to hope for the best or order from another flutemaker, Wilkes, Owell, Hamilton, Williams, Grinter etc or buy second-hand. We’re not talking mass-production here, so what else is there to do, Sam is how he is, for better or for worse like the rest of us
Yes, Sam’s flutes are very good. I think he has grown irresponsible in the last decade or so (he was fine when I was dealing with him in the late 1980s early 1990s) because he simply doesn’t know how to cope with the huge upsurge in demand for Irish flutes. And I honestly think he’d rather be making baroque flutes, for which he is extremely well known. My sister, a professional flutist who plays one of his baroque flutes, says it’s the best baroque flute she’s ever played.
So, worth the wait, if you can stand the frustration!
Tim
Sigh…
I have a feeling I’m going to regret posting this, but oh well.
I don’t believe in indulging bad business practices, insofar as promising a flute in months and then delivering it in years; quoting a price upon order and then quoting another [higher] price years later upon completion; not communicating with customers for months or years at a time (while holding their money), etc., etc.
I don’t believe in it because there are a lot of makers who make great flutes, deliver on time more often than not, and communicate with customers.
Everyone here knows that I work with a certain flute maker, and I want to emphasize that this is not an endorsement for him. If you cruise around this bulletin board, you’ll find references to several makers who do good work and they do it with a sense of customer service.
I’m also not debating long vs. short waiting lists here. Pat Olwell, among others, is very up front about his waiting list. So, the customer knows right away what they’re getting into. I have zero issues as far as that goes. I have issues with makers who treat customers badly, and then we shrug and order more stuff.
I realize that these are not production line instruments. I realize that makers can run into snags that will delay delivery. But I don’t see any of that as being a good excuse for a failure of common courtesy and respect for the customer.
Most of the angry posts that we see on this forum would never even appear if the maker sent a single email, letter, or phone call to say “I’m sorry. Here’s what’s going on. I’m going to try to deliver by this date.”
Anyway, I’ll climb off my soapbox now and wait for the hail of tomatoes.
Take care,
John Harvey
PS – While I’m stirring the pot, I may as well veer wildly off-topic. My first horror novel will be published next month by Arkham House Publishers ( http://www.arkhamhouse.com where you can preorder). You can read chapter 1 of The Cleansing at http://www.johndharvey.com
[ This Message was edited by: rhodeirish on 2002-07-31 10:07 ]
Hi John:
You’re right, and I don’t know what flute maker you work with.
G
G,
Skip Healy
Hi all:
No tomatoes (because our Jersey tomatoes are delicious this time of the year!)
As much as I admire Sam’s skills and like him personally, I alas didn’t intend to defend him. I wrote “Sad Story” to warn people, not solicit sympathy or commiseration.
If he ever comes through, I’ll never deal with him again no matter what happens to the flute.
No word yet from [personal details elided --rich] (1 phone call, 2 emails, 1 letter en route).
I have to be in London in November and will pop over to Belfast then to claim my flute/confront Sam. I’ll tell him in advance I’m coming (I haven’t yet because I don’t want him to think he’s got until then to finish!) and that’s the last straw. After that, I’m on Patrick Olwell’s waiting list.
Thanks to all for advice and (unsolicited) sympathy and commiseration!
Tim
They used to be something in Ireland until very recently call Irish Time. Time was not taken seriously and if some one promiced to meet you or send someting they or it arrived when it got there. This seems to be an extreme version of that.
At least this board is here to vent on.
This business will be busy while we are in our present flurih of celtic music. But one day will fade because of the bad reputation developing because of these practices.