Jane Fonda plans a bus tour to demonstrate against the Iraq war. Hmmm…
http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,600151199,00.html
Susan
Honestly, I hate the war, but I just cant give her audience.
Jane Says,
“I have not taken a stand on any war since Vietnam,” she said. “I carry a lot of baggage from that.”
NO KIDDING! :roll:
My feelings, also.
I assume that is your take, because whether you love her or hate her, this is going to bring some noise with it, I would think.
Tom
If Jane Fonda made a beer, she’d be selling cans of piss and wind!(Budweiser???)
Tom - I answered that because I could care less what any “celebrity” thinks about politics. I know all the flack that has followed her around since the Viet Nam era, and honestly understand the hatred some have for her. But - to me - she has no more “standing” on an issue than any other citizen.
Having said that, I just hope that anything she may say or do doesn’t cause the same ramifications as it seems they did during Viet Nam (I say seem because I’m still not sure if it’s ever been proven that she had an effect on those soldiers held at that time). Just because I give no credence to her words doesn’t mean others act the same way.
If I were Jane, I don’t think that I would have the guts to start an anti-war tour in this social climate. We could discuss whether she is the best spokesperson for the anti-war mission, but how many other higher-profile people do you see stepping up to the plate to tell the American people the truth? I commend her for her activism in a mission that she obviously believes in deeply.
The war in Vietnam was a travesty, and the secret war in Laos etc. should never have been allowed to happen. I respect anyone that spoke out against it. If any other country carried out anything like that we all would have condemned it. Jane Fonda’s very justifiable opposition to the war effort was courageous. The power of her act was evident in the efficient and terminable demonizing that the media and the pro-war right-wing launched against her. The message being; if you’re a popular celebrity and you speak out in any way against the war, no matter how wrong the war may be – they will take you out because they control the machinery of public consciousness.
On the other hand, even if the US is violating the Geneva conventions and carrying out an illegal invasion and occupation based on lies and thousands of people are being massacred; you can speak out or sing songs in support of the war and you’ll be glorified and maybe even find yourself in public office some day.
It has nothing to do with being right or wrong; it has everything to do with what side you’re on.
jGilder wrote:
“you can speak out or sing songs in support of the war and you’ll be glorified and maybe even find yourself in public office some day”
I don’t go along with that, either.
Like I said - it makes me no never mind WHAT a celebrity says about politics, whether they are “for” or “against”, whether their views oppose or agree with mine. I give them no more credit than any other citizen - they are welcome to their opinions, and to express them, but just because it’s Ms. Fonda instead of Ms. Next-door-neighbor doesn’t give them MORE credibility.
At the festival I attended the past weekend, I hear songs and sayings against the war, and I heard dedications of songs in support of our troops. I don’t see that as necessarily opposites. In fact, it was a little less polar than in years past - neither Tom Paxton or John McCutcheon weren’t there this year.
I also draw the line at protesting a government’s actions vs. the actions of individual soldiers.
Typically, I tend to agree with you, at least to some extent. In this case, though, I completely disagree. Jane Fonda could have done it courageoulsy, instead she did in such a way as to endanger our people there, and turn more people here against them, with her lies.
There are a lot of things that are said she did, which she did not do, however, on a trip to North Vietnam in 1972, she did say that our captive troops were being treated humanely and denounced U.S. soldiers as liars for claiming they had been tortured- inexcusable behavior on her part.
It has nothing to do with being right or wrong; it has everything to do with what side you’re on.
No, it has everything to do with telling the truth in your protests. I was never on the side of the war, but I have stood and will continue to stand against the actions she took in Vietnam. [/quote]
All the Best, Tom
It also doesn’t mean they know a stitch about what they’re talknig about either. I protest the war in my own little, and hopefully effective, way, but it sure doesn’t mean I know for sure what I’m talking about. (yeah, I’ve lost someone near to me to the war, so I use that as my justification to wail about it as loud or as much as I can)
The thing that just drives me nutz about celebs for or against anything, is they’re usually (and I do mean usually, because there are a few genuinely intelligent ones) the least informed people about their own position and know even less than your average joe about what they’re talking about.
Take Tom Cruise for example… 
I plead ignorance on the details of Fonda’s experience. Could you substantiate this with her actual quote? I’m not saying I disagree, It happened at a time when I wasn’t following the details so closely.
She turned over messages that the POW’s slipped in her hand (hoping she would convey them to families and the like) while in a greeting line to the NVA authorities, allegedly causing some of them to be tortured after she left. That’s always been the biggest charge against her, worse than mere words.
That wasn’t real courageous.. 
If you don’t believe me, ask John McCain.
And what will be the result of her tour?
Shall we pull out of Iraq immediately and let the still-strong insurgency rush into Baghdad and take over?
The answer, to me, is no, despite the awful mess and loss of more American lives that will result. And, I don’t know what the turning point will be, but announcing a calendar withdrawal is a terrible idea
. The soldiers have spoken out, time and again, that they don’t want the casualties to be in vain. Of course they want out, but they don’t want to give the satisfaction to Saddam’s leftovers who are counting on the US to get tired of the campaign and run.
It’s like dejavu all over again and here comes Fonda to jump into the cause celebre.
McCutcheon has written some great anti-war songs actually. Has anyone else heard this Willy Nelson song? He wrote this song on Christmas, 2003, and performed it for the first time at the Kucinich for President fundraising concert in Austin, Texas, on Jan. 3, 2004.
What Ever Happened To Peace On Earth
By Willy Nelson
What Ever Happened To Peace On Earth
There’s so many things going on in the world
Babies dying
Mothers crying
How much oil is one human life worth
And what ever happened to peace on earth
We believe everything that they tell us
They’re gonna’ kill us
So we gotta’ kill them first
But I remember a commandment
Thou shall not kill
How much is that soldier’s life worth
And whatever happened to peace on earth
(Bridge)
And the bewildered herd is still believing
Everything we’ve been told from our birth
Hell they won’t lie to me
Not on my own damn TV
But how much is a liar’s word worth
And whatever happened to peace on earth
So I guess it’s just
Do unto others before they do it to you
Let’s just kill em’ all and let God sort em’ out
Is this what God wants us to do
(Repeat Bridge)
And the bewildered herd is still believing
Everything we’ve been told from our birth
Hell they won’t lie to me
Not on my own damn TV
But how much is a liar’s word worth
And whatever happened to peace on earth
Now you probably won’t hear this on your radio
Probably not on your local TV
But if there’s a time, and if you’re ever so inclined
You can always hear it from me
How much is one picker’s word worth
And whatever happened to peace on earth
But don’t confuse caring for weakness
You can’t put that label on me
The truth is my weapon of mass protection
And I believe truth sets you free
(Bridge)
And the bewildered herd is still believing
Everything we’ve been told from our birth
Hell they won’t lie to me
Not on my own damn TV
But how much is a liar’s word worth
And whatever happened to peace on earth
Supporting our troops means using them only as a last resort. I don’t believe Bush did that, I believe he sent them in harms way with premeditation and on a pack of lies. Bush has betrayed the soldiers – he should be impeached.
I cannot give the exact quotes, I’m sorry. It’s a pretty well known fact that she did indeed do what I said, however. Also, when John McCain came home from the war, he was one of the soliders that said he was tortured for refusing to meet with her. She called him, and others, liars, saying that there was no torture.
The story that Weeks listed in his post, I think has been disproved, recently. When JF received some award on TV, or nominated as one of the 20th Century’s Greatest 100 Woman, (this title is probably wrong), a lot of research went into that supposed happening. The solidiers that were supposedly involved all say that it was not true. They met her, but all say that they did not pass her slips of paper.
Sorry that I don’t have her exact words on the other stuff, but I’m confident that I am spot on, as they say (they do say that, right)<
All the Best, Tom
What would happen if she was touring Guantanamo and this happened?
This did not happen.
Here is the Snopes version - draw your own conclusions.
http://www.snopes.com/military/fonda.asp
Strange stuff…
Slan,
D.