Our Friend and Ally in the War on Terror

Let’s see: They hold close to one half of their population in enslaved and abused conditions, yet there are no UN resolutions, no US condemnation, no European outcry…no they are our friends and allies because…they have the largest world oil reserves in the world…what a lame justification for tolerating a social holocaust. I suppose if Hitler had had oil the US would have made nice with him too…
Simple but hard solution:

  1. UN security resolution: Saudi Arabia is a repeat violator of basic human rights and is faced with immediate sanctions barring of all international trade
  2. US & Europe: Freeze all Saudi assets in the US and Europe
  3. Invade the damn place, get rid of these insane religious abusive slave drivers , oh and sell the oil on world market at production cost plus 10% margin that’ll do wonders to alleviate any concerns this action will have on the world economy..

I’d say a better moral argument for war then fake WMD’s…

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050602/ap_on_re_mi_ea/saudi_women_behind_the_wheel

RIYADH, Saudi Arabia - He just wanted his colleagues in the government’s legislative arm to discuss the possibility of conducting a study into the feasibility of reversing the ban on women drivers — the only prohibition of its kind in the world.

But Consultative Council member Mohammad al-Zulfa’s proposal has unleashed a storm in this conservative country where the subject of women drivers remains taboo.

Al-Zulfa’s cell phone now constantly rings with furious Saudis accusing him of encouraging women to commit the double sins of discarding their veils and mixing with men. He gets phone text messages calling on Allah to freeze his blood. Chat rooms bristle with insulting accusations that al-Zulfa is “driven by carnal instincts with 454 horsepower.”

There even have been calls to kick al-Zulfa from the council and strip him of his Saudi nationality.

The uproar may be astounding to outsiders. But in Saudi Arabia, where the religious establishment has the upper hand in defining women’s freedoms, the issue touches on the kingdom’s strict Islamic lifestyle.

Conservatives, who believe women should be shielded from strange men, say driving will allow a woman to leave home whenever she pleases and go wherever she wishes. Some say it will present her with opportunities to violate Islamic law, such as exposing her eyes while driving or interacting with strange men, like police officers or mechanics.

“Driving by women leads to evil,” Munir al-Shahrani wrote in a letter to the editor of the Al-Watan daily. “Can you imagine what it will be like if her car broke down? She would have to seek help from men.”

But al-Zulfa contends neither the law nor Islam bans women from driving. Instead, the ban is based on fatwas, or Islamic edicts, by senior clerics who say that any driving by women would create situations for sinful temptation.

It is the same argument used to restrict other freedoms. Without written permission from a male guardian, women may not travel, get an education or work. Regardless of permission, they are not allowed to mix with men in public or leave home without wearing black cloaks, called abayas.

Some 50 women who defied the ban and drove in November 1990 — when U.S. troops were protecting Saudi Arabia during Iraq’s invasion of Kuwait — were jailed for one day, their passports were confiscated and they lost their jobs.

The driving prohibition has forced families to hire live-in drivers, who, strangely, are allowed to be alone with women. Al-Zulfa said clerics have deemed this a lesser evil than driving. Women whose families cannot afford to pay $300 to $400 a month for drivers rely on male relatives to take them around.

Al-Zulfa brought up the issue a month ago in an open session of the Consultative Council, an appointed body that acts like a parliament.

The session focused on a new traffic law, and the Council members were discussing government statistics about more than 5,000 traffic deaths each year. They also were discussing the fact that the large number of foreign drivers — about 1 million — have economic repercussions.

“I know that talking about women driving is taboo, so I decided to take advantage of our discussions to bring up the topic,” said the Western-educated al-Zulfa.

Al-Zulfa, 61, said he proposed that a study be conducted to review the issue, arguing that allowing women behind the wheel would save Saudis both money and lives — since he believes women are cautious drivers.

Al-Zulfa suggested that only women over age 35 or 40 be allowed to drive and only in cities. On highways, he said, they could drive if accompanied by male guardians.

Al-Zulfa put the proposal in writing and sent it to the council’s presidency so it can appoint a date for discussing it. But apparently worried about the conservatives’ reaction, council head, Sheik Saleh bin Humaid, has not responded.

Despite the harsh outcry, not all the reaction has been negative.

Abdulrahman al-Rashed, a Saudi who is general manager of Al-Arabiya television, wrote in a recent column in Asharq al-Awsat paper: “It’s inconceivable that in a country of 25 million, a third of them are women who wait for a driver every day to take them to school, the hospital and relatives’ homes.”

Many women activists also welcomed al-Zulfa’s suggestion. But others lashed out at him for using the issue to project himself as a reformer.

In a strongly worded article, Wajiha al-Huweidar said Saudi women will not allow "the intellectuals to shine and their names to glitter at our expense.

“We will not permit anyone and we have not appointed anyone to speak on our behalf,” she said.

Hey Sven, did you happen to catch any of those ads that ran on TV, (just around the time of the Iraq invasion I think,) that said Saudi Arabia is our friend and is good for America? It showed the Saudi flag and went on about how wonderful they are – what a crock.




The US mainstream media compared Saddam to Hitler many times. But he was our best friend – even when he was brutalizing his people. We armed him and propped him up and defended him when the world was condemning him for these things… so you’re right.

Hey Jack,
Yea i remember those, also the good feel commercials right after 9-11 how the Saudi’s are innocent and are such a good friend of the US with only goodness in their hearts (soft feel good music in the background)…I wonder if Condi has to visit under the cover of darkness …

Incidently, I suspect these commercials were inspired based on advice given by the best modern propaganda machine since the Stalinistic politik apparatus: The Republican Party.

The reality is that:

  1. The president only attends scripted events
  2. The audience are either contributors or pre-screened and hand picked
  3. No truly critical questions are ever asked of the president in a challenging interview setting
  4. Interviews are pre-negotiated in terms of areas covered, types of questions asked
  5. Reporters in the White House get picked to ask questions, no truly critical or in depth follow-up questions are allowed (see the gay escort guy with the assumed name they had in there a true classic!)
  6. Pay reporters for favorable coverage on select topics
  7. The base strategy is to go to the lowest common denominator by picking an emotional issue that rallies the base, make it as broadly appealing as possible and keep repeating the sound bite in the hopes that it sticks

The little animals on George Orwell’s farm can tell a tale or two of what all this really means…

A Reformation from within is needed in the Islamic world, lest these medieval kingdoms with modern stuff continue, with or without support from the Western World.. A Saudi writer bravely pointed this out.

http://www.thetablet.co.uk/cgi-bin/register.cgi/tablet-00892

That’s their modus operandi – yes. Did you see the interview of Bush when he was in Ireland and a reporter there went off script, (didn’t know about it probably) and Bush got red in the face and yelled at her? The next day he canceled her interview with Laura.

=========================

‘Chicken George’ in Ireland

Bush Off and Don’t Come Back

By HARRY BROWNE
CounterPunch
June 29, 2004



The president roused Middle Ireland from its indifference mainly with a nasty, tetchy performance in a pre-journey TV interview on RTE’s Prime Time, and with the White House’s crybaby reaction to it–including refusing the relevant journalist, Carole Coleman, a previously agreed interview with the First Lady. Resentment was already simmering here about the costly and over-the-top security arrangements for the visit, with many residents around Shannon Airport and Dromoland Castle refusing to use the special ‘passes’ issued to them by the police, and newspaper readers horrified at images of all the Irish army’s tanks rolling in convoy through Clare, as though Al-Qaeda were planning to form battle ranks with its own armoured divisions moving in from Galway. Join the security paranoia and the media petulance together and the weekend’s inevitable headline, used at least twice by tabloids, is “Chicken George”.

Coleman is perhaps the least likely journalist to find herself in the midst of this sort of flap. (“Savaged by a sheep” is the phrase that springs to mind.) Reporting from Washington for RTE for a few years now, she’s never appeared particularly interested in the place or in her work. She’s the sort of foreign correspondent who is content to find her line in the local mainstream media, regurgitating wisdom about the world as seen by CNN and the Washington Post. To be sure, as the US media has found a small amount of election-year aggression, her work has reflected that, albeit faintly and soporifically. But the White House would have felt safe to assume that her 12 allotted minutes with the president–something of a tradition for the national broadcaster in the event of such a visit–would consist of softball questions about our nations’ historic links, the peace process blah blah blah, stuff even Bush could handle in his sleep.

Instead, Coleman looked like she’d downed six cups of coffee to steady her nerves and launched an aggressive-if-slightly-vapid line of questions about the deadly consequences of the Iraq invasion, interrupting Bush when he waffled or wandered. Bush wagged a finger at her and interrupted her back. By the time they got to her pointed question about whether he felt he was guided by God, he finished his evasive stammerings about his “personal relationship with the Good Lord” by declaring “that doesn’t make me a better person than you”–and you could tell he didn’t mean it: he hated her.

Click on title for full article

Jack, no i hadn’t seen that, classic! I particularly liked the end where it says:

But for all the sense of tragic importance and occasional high spirits among protesters, there was a sense that we had been successfully boxed in by the authorities. Condoleezza Rice, in an interview with Irish journalists prior to the visit, had reminded Irish protesters that they were enjoying the benefits of democracy, of the sort soon to be visited on Iraq. But as one leaflet doing the rounds put it, we had simply reached the “Free Speech Compound”, where our protests could echo off the 12-foot cement walls.

Maggie Roynayne of Global Women’s Strike pointed to the walls, to the helicopters, police horses and dogs, the weapons unseen but no doubt ready for us, and asked, “Is this democracy?.. We don’t accept any of this as normal!”

For once, the activist’s sentiment seemed to be shared by most people in Ireland.

Also note that this is a common tactic also used with officers in the military, if you criticise or mention that we do not have enough troops we will demote you (in essence destroy your career).
Same tactic by the Chrisitan Right going to everyone that speaks or behaves in a way they do not agree with “Cease or we will economically destroy you” - see Dixie Chicks, or Ford, or Microsoft…
I wonder if that reporter still gets to do her job in DC?

Here’s a really interesting article for you from an unlikely source:

Over the last two years, I have found increasing numbers of conservatives deeply concerned by U.S. military intervention in Iraq. They voted for and admire President Bush, but were profoundly disturbed by his second inaugural address pledging to spread democracy worldwide. Now, there is an important new book that eloquently puts in perspective their alarms about America’s course in the post-Cold War world.

Sands of Empire by Robert W. Merry, a respected Washington journalist, warns of the United States as the ‘‘Crusader State’’ transporting American exceptionalism around the world. The book, to be published this month, contends this crusade threatens ‘‘the American Republic, the greatest civic achievement in the history of mankind.’’

rest of article here:
http://www.suntimes.com/output/novak/cst-edt-novak02.html

and who can forget the beautiful spring walk in the park…

The Saudi King must feel crumbling pressure from President Bush’s hardline negotiating tactic and insistence to “spread freedom and democracy throughout the world”..

http://slate.msn.com/id/2117517/

Having spent time in India, it IS hard to get used to walking with guys holding your hand. Guess they do it there, too (S.A). It would be impolite not to.

It would be difficult to hold hands with a repressive dictator that chops people’s hands off as punishment. If only Bush would hold the Saudis to the same standards he supposedly held Saddam to. Hypocrisy is holding hands with dictators – something not uncommon for people in the Bush Administration.

Apparently, nobody got the joke (it had to do with something a couple of days ago and I was probably the only person who even remembered it), so never mind. :stuck_out_tongue:

Men holding hands is not a bad thing, of course. I didn’t mean to imply that it was.

Welcome to the party Blackwood. I have been trying to point this out to Mr. ‘One Size Fits All’ Gilder everytime he talks about how “all conservatives do …” and so forth.

Between the conspiracy accusations, constant harangues, glib comebacks, and cries of being victimized, he drowns out the very honorable cries that you refer to (some of whom contribute to this Forum).

He does’nt even bother to listen to the radio guys he constantly attacks, who would actually provide him more fuel for his anti-Bush tirades. Bush has lost many on both sides of his political spectrum, so to speak, but some are more interested in grinding out old 60s polemics while reality takes its dynamic daily course, not burdened by the small-mindedness of those who presume to have a real handle on it.

Whatever the truth is, its not gonna be found in Maoist-style harangues, including the “running”…I mean “attack dogs” of “imperia”…I mean the "right wing " who are surfing the Internet at this moment trying to put Gilder’s Fire of Truth out with their lifted legs. Although I did enjoy coining the metaphor.

The Weekenders wrote:

Having spent time in India, it IS hard to get used to walking with guys holding your hand. Guess they do it there, too (S.A). It would be impolite not to.

Having spent some time in India too I never felt the need to hold hands with a man, but the larger point is this:
Why be polite to a man who represents the very nature of a regime that does everything you claim you work against in the declared war strategy of the US?

Yes maybe it is realpolitik, but it is nothing but hypocritical since the message is the same as it has been for decades: You can be as ruthless as you want to be as long as you serve our interests..
Examples abound, but here’s a recent one often unnoticed…:

http://slate.msn.com/id/2120004/

The Brother Karimov
America’s friend, Uzbekistan’s dictator

Interesting geopolitics by a man who claims to be called to his position by God…

Young men in India routinely walk, holding hands. I lived with a family as an exchange student and was exposed to this custom. Hard to imagine that you didn’t see it. I was befriended many times by these guys and next thing you know, they would be grabbing my hand. But this has nothing to do with making important decisions in world politics, I was just pointing it out.

If you are gonna poke fun at Bush holding hands with this guy and “taking a walk in the park”, it shows me a lack of cultural understanding, but it would ruin the juvenile putdown.

As for the serious point, many world leaders have broken bread with people whose politics they abhor. That’s what diplomacy is all about. But from the powerless warrens that so many social critics scream from, it’s much easier to sanctimoniously focus in on a current enemy Commander-In-Chief, rather than remember Churchill and Stalin, Kennedy and Kruschev, etc. etc.

I do acknowledge that Bush is not in the complete adversarial position in terms of the public light of the other examples.

But ONLY George Bush holds or shakes hands with dictators, right? RIGHT. I’m sure you could scan the vast archives of Internet photos and get many world leaders shakin’ hands with the various devils of the globe.

Weekender wrote:

If you didn’t see it there, you are either blind or being disingenuous in denying it.

hey hey what is the reason to start slamming me? I merely pointed out my not feeling the need to hold hands with anyone there, you may want to read more carefully before accusing other people of being disingenuous or blind.. Also I noticed Jack and I staying on factual matter discussion, but now you have personally attacked Jack and I..Why?

But ONLY George Bush holds or shakes hands with dictators, right? RIGHT.

George Bush is putting himself on the moral high pedastal that he represents good and everyone else is evil (remember: you are with us or against us?) I am merely pointing out the hypocricy of claiming to want to bring freedom and democracy to the world, but then not doing ONE thing to bring that about in a country with one of the world’s worst records in abusing a large part of the population (in this case women). Of course since it is justified in the name of religion in must be acceptable. Something George is all too familiar with…

slam edited before your post, Black. I do use the edit feature, regularly, when I realize I have made a mistake. I am sorry about that.

What has Bush done to make Saudi Arabia freer? How about facilitating democratic elections in a giant state nearby, thereby destabilizing Middle Eastern dictatorships everywhere, at the cost of the blood of his countrymen? Maybe not done in some noble fashion, but done nevertheless.

So do I!

Welcome to Weekend’s world of factual political debate. His style is often to attack you and your sources thereby avoiding the subject and any real discussion. You’ll have to get used to seeing your name abused in his posts as well.

Not cool, Jack. Not only did Weekenders edit his post, but he still apologized and admitted his error despite having done the editing prior to Blackwood’s calling him on it. It’s an awfully ungenerous way of treating another in the Pub.

I’m way over here on the left, a tax-and-spend, bleeding-heart big-guv’mint liberal. Check out the moniker, even, or past posts. I agree with you on many points you’ve posted in the pub. I disagree with many of Weekender’s stances (as a veggie-eater, I’ve even read here that I’m contributing to the downfall of America As We Know It, which makes me wonder about how strong that America can possibly be, or on what it’s based – hoo!). But I’ve gotta say that your refusal to engage your “opponents” as thoughtful and well-meaning people makes me cringe. I’ve been a member of the board for a long time, and though 'Enders inhabits much different ideological ground than I do, and he and I have had plenty of debates here, and I know him to be reasonable and thoughtful and generous, generally (we all have our moments, me included).

In this case, he was more than gracious, and you just kicked him despite it. Bad show.

I agree with a number (not all) of your political stances, but I find myself repeatedly embarassed by the more shrill and mean-spirited of your posts, by the extraordinary volume of your protestations of ill-treatment out of proportion to the perceived “attack”, and your willfulness in overlooking a gracious gesture (as here) and in repeatedly pounding your opinion with bug-eyed amazement that any thoughtful person could have another. Geez, man, you even overlook those moments when someone concedes, as 'Enders has, that Bush ain’t the shiny heroic Superman some try to portray.

(Yeah, all this goes for some others here, including an infamous opponent of yours, but I think you’re being pretty small in this particular case.)

Thanks for the lecture dad, but I had retrieved the quote earlier, started my response, and got around to posting it a bit later because I was distracted by a phone call. I didn’t see the post from Weekenders before I posted mine. But the behavior I’m talking about from him has been chronic ever since joining this forum. If he decides to change his ways I’ll be delighted, but I’ll only believe it when I see it.

As I said, I posted after he did, but if you don’t mind, could you provide these other instances where he offers a “gracious gesture” in response to what I present? I have only seen attacks and outright dismissals of it sometimes including personal attacks as well. Whenever I provided evidence that was proof – I never received any acknowledgement. Instead Mr. Weekenders would find something else to attack. He’s not alone in this tactic either.

The difference between myself and some of the saints in this forum might be that I don’t simply turn the other cheek. If attacked – I just might return fire. I make no apologies for that. If you review any of the threads I’m on you’ll see that I’m usually, if not always, responding to an attack. If you think I’m wrong about this, please provide specific examples. I don’t recall ever responding that way without provocation.

You mean illegally invading a nearby country on a pack of lies, killing over 100,000 Iraqi people, creating an upsurge of terrorism, and occupying the country with a corporate democracy. The House of Saud is a brutal and repressive regime – but they aren’t stupid. They know who has done more to install and support dictartorships around the Middle East over the past 50 years. They know who makes a terrorist state like Israel possible. None of this is going to help them become decent and respectful of human rights and International law. It will have quite the opposit effect actually.