Y-shaped single fipple flutes--How were these played?

World/Folk Flutes & Winds
1

Hi, I’m working on making a playable prop replica of Mr. Tumnus’ flute from the first Narnia movie. I don’t have much of a musical background apart from piano lessons as a child and fiddling around with a couple recorders. (Of course as a craftswoman I have never let not knowing how to work in leather, wood, glass, silver, or whatever stop me.) But I need some help from more informed minds.

From looking around the web and reading, I see that double recorder type instruments exist, and usually have either a double fipple or a double reed (aulos). In such cases you can play one pipe independently or both pipes together in harmony, or possibly for an extended range. (I love the sound of two recorders in harmony.)

But in my searching I also happened across the following two pictures, one of an ancient flute from Ecuador and the other as part of a Da Vinci exhibit that showed a musical instrument of the time. Can anyone explain to me how these would have been played? They appear to have single fipples, but then why have six holes down one or both sides if they can’t be played individually? I’m assuming they weren’t played by krakens. Would two pipes with a single fipple harmonize with each other, or…?

Could anyone enlighten me?

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/55/45/b5/5545b5eac2dc07ace7cb9b872c8ec5a9.jpg

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/a6/a2/5b/a6a25b32c31b878f3382f764bee26d51.jpg

Thanks.

2

I would have to assume that some of the holes would be plugged.

3

It’s not going to sound like the movie. AFAIK, the actual audio was duduk, (a reed instrument) not any kind of flute. The Y shaped thing was just a prop, likely inspired by a classical greek aulos. I suspect that for the twin barrel version, only one barrel would have been played, with the other just being a drone.

Edited: Or maybe not. The aulist in this pic seems to be playing both pipes.

4

You’re absolutely right about being unable to produce that sound on an instrument of that size and shape. (I did do quite a bit of research before I brought my question here, and recreating the prop in question has been discussed before.) The duduks used to create the sound are longer and therefore lower in key than any sound the small instrument depicted could produce, even if functional. And it might even be impossible to play the same tune at a higher pitch given that it looks like it would have a more limited range of notes. Possibly if it were recreated as a single chamber ocarina…I know Songbird Ocarinas made a wishbone-shaped instrument some years ago, but it had only four holes and a fairly limited range. Though I’m leaning at the moment toward a more limited range if I can get the pipes to work in harmony even if I can’t play the “Narnian Lullaby”. that would be icing, but it’s not really one of my requirements.

But I’m still not really understanding how the two instruments I posted would have worked. So basically the thinking is that they made a bunch of holes, then plugged the ones they didn’t want so they could pitch the pipes up or down to perform a specific piece? What happens to the sound when there’s no division between the two chambers? (These are things I plan to experiment with, but any information I can get going in would be helpful.)

Eric the flutemaker demonstrates a number of possibilites on playing double pennywhistles: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jras69X1XsQ

In his demonstration you can see how both might be played at the same time, instead of one used only as a drone.

In the actual film, and the book The Crafting of Narnia which discusses the design of the prop, Tumnus does not lift the fingers of his right hand off the drone at all, though it has three holes, and he keeps his left on the upper four of the five finger spots (with the fifth having two holes). The designer said that he wanted it to be a double reed instrument with a ‘dirge’ pipe that could be interchanged with others, and the pipe box actually contains two variations that can be swapped out, with two and one hole each. I have not seen any other double reed instruments with mouthpieces resembling this…it looks like a basic fipple to me, though the white wood on top resembles a reed. Still, someone on the Narniafans forum identified it as a potential double reed instrument before the explanatory book ever came out, so maybe they know more than I do. Althernately the designer may have just meant “double pipe” and “drone” rather than “double reed” and “dirge” (Is a dirge pipe a thing? I can’t find it online, just come up with bagpipes playing at funerals.) He was a musician though and I am not.

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/40/15/a5/4015a5c66419aa7b1bf633f796011357.jpg
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/a3/47/38/a3473896c9f7e506caaea2d168f418c4.jpg
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/2a/09/95/2a0995efe6112402348170d903c18acb.jpg

The pipes also have interesting ends, which either have very small openings or are completely closed:
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/42/20/c8/4220c8d7f9cd1d1b13c5e4c778b44855.jpg

So, yeah, my goal is something remotely playable and not offensive to the ear, even if its range is rather limited. Harmonizing is a plus, but I know it’s not going to sound like a duduk. Bonus points for broadening the range or making pieces that are actually interchangeable. If I wanted to I could just make the prop and it would be a good replica and pretty to look at, but I like practical props. (I was kind of amazed to find out that Picard’s flute from “The Inner Light” wasn’t playable…they must have tried pretty hard to make it not work. It’s basically a tin whistle. Of course the abundant prop replicas fixed that.) I made a replica of Susan’s horn years ago before the Noble Collection came out with theirs, and mine can produce a tone. Not a very heroic one, but it works. The replica apparently does not. (Though they did make one as part of a children’s set overseas and that one sounds like a duck whistle. It’s just hysterical. Can you imagine? Aslan’s talking to Peter, and then QUACK! “It is your sister’s horn!”)

Well, I digress. Any further advice? I’m going to start with a couple of PVC pipe prototypes. I ordered a Y-connecter, so as soon as it arrives that should let me play around with some single-fipple configurations before I commit to wood. Double will be a lot trickier to construct and keep the prop looking more or less the same.

5

Or a launeddas?

6

For “dirge” read “drone”, IMO.

If you want to get lexical, the word comes from the opening phrase of the latin mass for the dead, dirige domine deus meus, (“Lord, direct us..”) traditionally sung with a low, slow, monotonous melody. By extension it came to mean any similar monotone. From there it’s a very short step to drone, and that’s clearly what the designer had in mind.

7

Apologies. This is a total diversion. Mr G’s post above had me looking up what on earth a “launeddas” was. This guy is totally brilliant. As I say, apologies for the diversion, but well worth listening to the whole 10 minutes or so of this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BzWITU3L-F0

8

This might help:

[…] This broad type of double pipes with both pipes fingered, and therefore polyphonic music playable on them (within limits) existed from truly ancient times. Some of the earliest instruments discovered in Mesopotamia and Egypt are of this type, as are the Greek aulos. All known ancient double pipes are reedpipes, but in mediaeval times flue pipes also were made with this type of fingering, as is clear from contemporary illustrations as well as the only surviving instrument.

There are three kinds of double pipes I make at present. All three have essentially the same musical range, but with small variations. The top pipe in the photo has the easiest fingering pattern of the three. It is essentially what you would have by playing two recorders, with the right-hand one having the top 3+t fingerholes taped up. This plays C-G, with the option of a thumbhole, adding A. The left pipe plays F-d, with e and f overblowing fairly well in tune. The bottom pipe in the photo has identical right-hand pipe to the above, but the left-hand pipe plays an entire octave without overblowing, using rather tricky cross-fingering (no half-covering). If you are used to conventional recorder fingering, learning this pattern will take a bit of time. With this fingering the advantage is that playing top notes on the left pipe at the same time as low notes on the right one becomes much easier, there is far less danger of the low pipe overblowing. Also, the top semitones are much better. The middle pipe in the photo has an identical F-f left pipe, cross-fingered, no overblowing, with the right pipe playing Bb-G (with thumbhole.) On the two with the right-hand pipe range C-G the thumbhole taking the range up to A is optional. Not much music requires it, and the presence of the thumbhole makes holding th pipe a bit awkward. However, it is by no means impossible, and, well, there is some music that can use an extra note. The lower-range Bb pipe comes with the thumbhole as standard. All these pipes are tuned in a kind of just temperament. Any other kind makes two sounds playing practically into each other clash very audibly, so pure fifths and fourths are vastly preferable.

As no known music exists for these type of pipes, you have to arrange polyphonic music of the period to suit the capabilities of this instrument. It is possible to play launeddas and zampogna music on them to a certain extent, even though the effect is quite different. There also exists a completely new repertoire for the revival Cornish double bagpipe, which is also playable on these pipes. They really come into their own when used for playing two-part medieval and early renaissance consort music. Best results are obtained by taking music with a melody line within one octave, and arrangeing from the lower parts of the original a second line to fit the limits of the right pipe.

9

Thank you. Yes, I’d read that before and think it will definitely be useful if I go with a split fipple solution. It’s helpful in that it gives me an idea of what the expected notes should be for each hole (which is really where my “derp, not a musician” is a huge handicap). I think the original site also had a link to some old medieval or baroque music that could be played on the instruments. The fact that Tumnus’ pipes are so short and almost the same length may make positioning the holes the correct distance down each chamber to bring them into harmony challenging. Does shortening the ends of the pipes, after the final holes, make a difference in pitch?

10

Yes, primarily for the lowest note.

11

I’d be astonished if the tumnus pipes were made by a musician, or if they were at all playable. They’re a prop made by a sculptor who’d looked at reference photos like the below, not by someone with any practical skills in fluthiery. You won’t get what you see in the pics you posted to make musical sense.

12

To be honest, I was surprised to learn that the flute was even made of wood. I had assumed it was a resin casting. Lucy’s bottle was. But the listing when it went to auction described it as wood and brass. I’m still not 100% convinced, but I suppose if you’re selling something at a high-end auction (The pipes sold for $3,000-$4,000) you’d better get your description right.

I suppose because it was such a featured piece, they gave it some extra attention. And the removable pieces do fit into each other with some accuracy. But no, it doesn’t seem able to produce much of a sound.

You can actually hear James trying to play the thing in one of the bloopers, here at about 2:47:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fr59EdcoMwY

Doesn’t sound like he got very far. :smiley:

13

You’ll need two fipples or two reeds if you want two - or maybe even one - simultaneous notes. That’s where the vibration occurs, and the vibe is the sound. The sounding length (length til first open hole) and volume of the tube controls the frequency that the reed or the air passing over the fipple vibrates at, but this is where it happens. In fact, that’s likely the whole problem with this instrument. The complex cavity and multiple sounding lengths cause too much interference to get even one clean note sounding at the fipple. It’d be like trying to play a very leaky flute.

I don’t know of any wind instrument with a single fipple/reed where the body forks down the shaft. I think the Tumnus flute is the only Y-shaped single fipple flute there is. It’s unplayable, and that’s why. The answer to the question in your thread title is “they weren’t played”.

~~

A double flageolet looks a bit like it divides down the shaft, but it has two fipples and splits the air column before them. Where it looks like there’s only one fipple it’s because they’re on opposite sides of the headstock and you can’t get both in the same shot. Cutting two fipples and two windways adds manufacturing complexity and cost. If it wasn’t musically necessary it wouldn’t have been done. Note also that in a set of pipes in which the bag makes a manifold and the same bellows or set of lungs drives everything, every pipe or drone has its own reed and the air is distributed before that reed.




Bainbridge developed the simple concept into a working instrument in a number of ways. First, he created a single headstock piece which contained the fipples for both tubes. This was fitted into a larger barrel and conical windway so that a single mouthpiece could sound both pipes. Each fipple was then further modified by the addition of a key which allows the airflow to be cut off to one or both of the pipes.

14

I wouldn’t be terribly surprised if the one from the Da Vinci exhibit wasn’t usable. Most of that exhibit, from what I can tell from the Flickr photos of the guy who posted this, was dedicated to recreating a lot of Da Vinci’s concept drawings in physical form. Awesome idea. But the instrument wasn’t by Da Vinci, but apparently an “instrument from that era”. Well, double recorders were a thing then, I guess, but that piece really sorta looks like “Quick! We need an example of period musical instruments. Go to the Made in India souvenir shop and find the first decorative flute that splits down the middle!”

The one from Ecuador I’m not so sure about. It comes from an instrument museum and there’s an article about Pre-Columbian flutes on the page. http://www.banrepcultural.org/blaavirtual/antropologia/musicprec/musicprec10a.htm

There’s a double-fippled flute further down the page shown in an extremely bad photograph.

This is probably the closest thing online to Tumnus’s flute that’s modern and workable. It’s essentially the same solution as the double flageolet, or a wooden train whistle, though:

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/02/50/8e/02508e83dbf4be80103704fcaec7b214.jpg

Anyway, I got my materials for the prototype yesterday and I’ll let you know what I discover. Annoyingly, 1/2" PVC pipe, 1/2" wooden dowels and the 1/2" Y-shaped PVC tubing connector are all different sizes. Was easy to swap the dowel for a 5/8 while still in the store, but using the connector will probably require duct tape. Very irritating.

15

First prototype last night. Took me a good while to get the fipple (dowel in PVC) to produce a sound. I’m afraid it may have a slight leak around the edges, which is astonishing considering how carefully I sanded the thing down.

I forgot to do a test with the fipple attached to a single pipe once the fipple was actually working well. When it was working poorly I attempted to attach a longer piece of pipe, but no sound was produced unless I covered the end of the pipe. Same with the mouthpiece on its own (It’s about two inches long altogether). It made no noise unless the end was covered. That seems wrong, as a basic recorder will make notes will all its holes covered and end open…

At this point the mouthpiece is attached to a y-shaped splitter and a lot of duct tape is being use to keep everything sealed (which is why I haven’t gone back to check the single pipe issue). Then the branches are each around seven inches. It’s all a bit larger than Tumnus’ at the moment.

The instrument (whistle at this point as it does not yet have any holes) can currently produce two notes: C6 or G6 depending on how hard I blow. Is that what controls the upper and lower registers in a recorder?

The ends of both tubes are currently capped. With either end uncapped no sound is produced. With both ends uncapped no sound is produced.

16

With the fipple just stuck inside a pipe like that, the normal air flow will just stay inside the pipe. You want it to flow across the windway and out. Refer to Guido Gonzato http://www.ggwhistles.com/howto/ for a more reliable fipple design, if somewhat more complicated. You might get away with sanding the top of the fipple block to direct the air flow out of the window; it might make a sound, although not a great sound. (With the ends capped, the air flow is forced out the window, which is why you get a sound in that case.)

I suggest you use different lengths of pipe on the two branches of the Y. Then, when you do get a sound, do you get two sounds or just one? There’s no point in having finger holes in both branches if you don’t get two sounds. But I’m willing to bet you get only one, in which case the Y has no value beyond whimsy.

17

With the pipes blocked, surely you’re making an ocarina, not a whistle.

18

Thank you Tumborough,

Yes, I think you’re right that there’s a basic problem in the fipple construction. At lunch today I finally got around to drilling a couple holes in the right hand pipe. No change in pitch at all. Then I decided maybe the pipes were too long for a single-chambered ocarina (like Songbird’s old Wishbone) and tried shortening each branch by about an inch and a half, effectively removing the second finger hole, then capped them again (This also brings the size a lot closer to the original prop which was about nine inches long). Brought the core tone from C6 to E6 (I can see I’m going to hate the sound of this thing…I’m a fan of soothing middle and low notes :wink: ), but still no change in pitch whether the remaining hole was open or shut, until I increased the hole size to 1/4’', as I know some ocarinas have fairly large holes. The difference in size between the next largest drill bit and the 1/4 was enough to go from no change in sound to NO sound at all with the hole uncovered. So yeah, the next item on my agenda was going to be stripping off the tape and going back to making the fipple work with a single pipe to try and diagnose the problem, but I’m sure you’re right. What I was looking at for construction reference was something like this pic and it doesn’t show the necessity of the air going OVER the window lip: http://www.pocketfarm.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/whistle_mouthpiece_600.jpg. Thank you for pointing out the flaw and directing me to some better plans. I have a lot to accomplish this weekend, but hopefully I’ll be back with a better attempt next week.

S1m0n, I’m not sure in this case where the difference lies. Maybe I misused the terminology. Certainly once it had finger holes I’d call it an ocarina. A single-chambered ocarina seemed the simplest thing by far to start with, even if what I’m really interested in is getting a double-chambered harmonic sound. But until I get basic concepts like constructing a proper fipple right, I’m not going to approach something harder.

Not to mention that I have a number of friends as nerdy as myself who would be tickled to see just a working ocarina, just so it looks like Tumnus’ instrument.

19

Good point, s1m0n. In this case, the pipes may be long enough to function more like an overtone flute than an ocarina, but it could be operating somewhere in between.

An ocarina is a vessel flute. Its playing frequency is based on the Helmholz resonance of a large volume of air, and increases as the area of uncovered holes increases, rather than depending on the length of the resonator and the position of the finger holes.

20

An ocarina is a chamber; a whistle is a tube. The terminology can be inexact but the physics is distinct.