I’ve been trying to go back through some old threads about whistlemaking and how makers figure out designs, improve, evolve, etc.
I’m just starting to look at whistles again after having played the same 3 for 12 years or so and I’ve been amazed and pleased by the growth in numbers and quality of whistles. What I haven’t found is an organization where makers can share info.
For those of us who were buying guitars in the 60s and 70s, life was grim. What you had were icky imported plywood dreadnoughts or inconsistent and very expensive Martins and Gibsons. Noone was building other styles or at better value points.
The Guild of American Luthiers and books like Irving Sloane’s and Teeter’s encouraged a whole bunch of folks to build in the 80s and share what they learned. 20 years later, the results are guitars vastly better than anything we saw back then at much better prices.
Am I just not finding it or is there not a GAL equivalent for budding whistle makers to share their experiences?
Players and builders alike benefit when the state of the art is improved.
It would be a nice thing, but there are probably as many guitar builders in this country as there are whistle players almost. I kid you not, there are a lot of them.
I’m working on a book on whistlebuilding for those who want to build their own, it will have plans to make PVC whistles in just about any key.
On 2002-10-15 22:25, Daniel_Bingamon wrote:
It would be a nice thing, but there are probably as many guitar builders in this country as there are whistle players almost. I kid you not, there are a lot of them.
Sure there are lots of guitar builders. Now. Part of the reason is the ready supply of information and building materials. And yes, there are lots more guitar players than whistle players as potential market, but that can change too.
I’d also be surprised if “senior” whistle makers wouldn’t welcome a chance to compare notes. It’s nice to know that a new finish or material has already been tried and what worked and didn’t. It’s useful to know what kind of instruments players are buying (and aren’t). It’s nice to know who to buy things from and what other folks are paying the vendors.
Dale:
I’d like to start such a topic or new group here. Same rules as the rest of the board, excepting only that we makers could identify ourselves as such in the .signature.
Chiff & Fipple is the most dynamic and active community comprising both whistlers and smiths I’ve found, thus seems the ideal place for us to “talk tech”.
Starting it off: I am beginning a series of tests on various woods to determine their suitability for fipples. Some empirical data seems to suggest that African Gaboon ebony takes on the least water of any I’ve tested thus far, being:
American hard “furniture” maple
American wild cherry
South American Goncalo Alves (unsuitable due to staining)
Purpleheart (unsuitable due to staining)
To be tested:
Cocobolo
Zebrawood
Aromatic cedar
Further, I plan to test water absorption and expansion of material using the following protocol:
Cut samples 3/4" square by 2" length
Dry samples in a commercial dessicant (silica gel) for 100 hours
Weigh samples and record each
3a. Measure samples in all 3 dimensions with digital calipers and record
Submerge samples in individual containers of distilled water for 100 hours
Remove surface water and re-weigh samples and record each
5a. Measure and record as in 3a.
I will inform the board when the test commences, and will publish the results.
On 2002-10-16 21:27, Daniel_Bingamon wrote:
There is already an instrument makers forum, > http://www.mimf.com> , there are a number of tin whistle builders on that forum, including myself.
Yer missin’ me p’int! C&F is the BIGGEST, BEST-KNOWN whistle board. It’s where EVERYONE WHO IS ANYONE in the whistle community comes to talk whistles. It’s why it’s such a total natural for a whistlesmith forum! Why would yer want us t’ go traipsin’ all over creation t’ share our valyooabul infermashun?
C’mon, Alba, Elfsong, Brewerpaul, John S., and the rest o’ yer, an’ back me up here, or else tell me why it shouldn’t be!
On 2002-10-15 22:25, Daniel_Bingamon wrote:
I’m working on a book on whistlebuilding for those who want to build their own, it will have plans to make PVC whistles in just about any key.
Daniel, that is awesome news! When its done, sign me up for a copy - autographed of course!! Your contribution to this board and to “whistledom” is appreciated.
I’m willing to contribute whatever I can. I just don’t know, in the greater scheme of things, how many whistlemakers are out there. Not as many as guitarmakers, for example.
BTW-- Serpent: some of those woods you mentioned may be pretty allergenic, eg Cocobolo. They may not be suitable for fipples without some sort of protective coating.
On 2002-10-17 06:55, brewerpaul wrote:
I’m willing to contribute whatever I can. I just don’t know, in the greater scheme of things, how many whistlemakers are out there. Not as many as guitarmakers, for example.
BTW-- Serpent: some of those woods you mentioned may be pretty allergenic, eg Cocobolo. They may not be suitable for fipples without some sort of protective coating.
Thanks, Paul! Do you have any pointers to toxicology or info on allergic reaction to various woods? That’d be something really great to compile as a reference for all who use wood in whistle bodies and fipples, anyplace the wood, itself, might come into contact with the skin or mouth.
As to numbers, so far I’ve only identified about 30 what I’d call “serious” individual commercial whistlesmiths on the WWW.
Tech query: I’ve not seen a cross-section of your whistles, but it appears from the photographs that the blade is cut into the wood of the body. If so, then, are you using an angle on the upper surface of the fipple to properly entrain the air? Reason I ask is, I’m beginning to make brass whistles by milling a slot across the tube and depressing a blade with a press. I find that angling my fipple’s top surface up a few degrees in the direction of the blade, makes for a less-chiffy sound. Observations?
On 2002-10-17 06:55, brewerpaul wrote:
I’m willing to contribute whatever I can. I just don’t know, in the greater scheme of things, how many whistlemakers are out there. Not as many as guitarmakers, for example.
Well if there are fewer whistlemakers out there, then perhaps it is a question of supply and demand? Lets face it what kid growing up in the US (and probably a few other countries) doesn’t want a guitar at some point?
On the other hand, the relative simplicity of the whistle and simple system flute make them far more friendly to a novice instrument maker than pretty much any others.
This sounds interesting, not so much for the information per se, as for the flow of information from master to apprentice. As the acknowledged masters retire, it would be nice to know that their knowledge is passed on to accomplished makers who have learned their art so it doesn’t die. I’d hate to lose the craftsmanship of, say, Pat O’Riordan. 'Course, I supect these makers DO train successors, if they want their work to perpetuate.
But for those of us who have entertained thoughts of trying our hand at whistle-making–even to find out whether we have the knack for it–a forum here (in one place) where basics are shared would be helpful. I certainly would NOT expect a maker to share trade secrets that differentiate their whistles. I’m more interested in the process itself, materials, etc.
Dale, where the heck are you? And do any other people think a whistlesmith’s forum on C&F is a good idea? So far, I’ve seen no negative responses to the concept. Same rules as the rest of the board, no blatant ads, etc… just for interchange of information and ideas. Sole difference would be allowing info that poster is a whistlesmith in their .signature, which, in such a venue, seems reasonable to me. Oh. One other diff – no OT posts allowed. I’ll even volunteer to be one of the monitors.
brewerpaul (Paul) called to question my test of cocobolo, as some are allergic to it. That’s good information, and would be nice to have in a focussed forum.
Per the concern of “trade secrets”, any whistle can be purchased, measured, x-rayed, etc. and while clever jigs can help, most things can be done more than one way.
As with any other art/craft, there is much more to being a master builder than building techniques and trade secrets. Desire, eye for proportion, attention to detail and a good ear can’t be stolen.
The reason I hesitated to use the word “guild” in my original post was that it tends to carry baggage of exclusivity and secrecy. Groups like the Guild of Americal Luthiers (GAL) and the Association of String Instrument Artisans (ASIA) work because everyone is willing to share their knowledge so that it’s not lost.
On the topic of woods, cocus seems to have allergic reactions for a good number of folks. Both cocobolo and ebony dust are at least mildly toxic when inhaled, so they probably have allergenic tendencies. There have been some threads on the woodenflute mailing list about this.
This is an excellent example of where varied knowledge shared can be great.
I think a whistle construction forum would be great, and would keep the technical bits of whistle construction away from the people that just wanted to talk whistling.
Plus, I’ve recently had the itch to try my hand at whistlesmithing since I’ve ‘inherited’ a few power tools (lathe, drill press, etc) - I was the one with the most garage room
Something else for the whistle builders in the way of comfort. Even if someone “knows” how to build a particular instrument, most would still rather have a master’s work. But, they do know good work when they see it.
I can build a guitar and have, but it’s not as nice as most folks building today. However, it makes me a very informed consumer. I think that the builders I’ve bought from and I have both enjoyed the experience because I understand what I want and the tradeoffs and can articulate them.
I took some jewelry courses to learn a bit about engraving and figured I could save some money by making jewelry as gifts. What I found was that the jewelry I buy is much pricier, since I go for more unusual and well done stuff…
A Whistle makers forum? No way!Mr Serpent,many Whistlesmiths share there knowledge freely on this forum already.Since your arrival on the forum as the self appointedvillage idiot´(your words,not mine)many of your questions indicate huge gaps in your knowledge of whistlemaking, and photos of your efforts,although nicely engraved ,look somewhat amateurish in my opinion...perhaps deliberately so for that rustic´aesthetic /charm mentioned in a review on this forum,perhaps not.A few makers are active members of the forum without promoting themselves with every post..they simply enjoy being a part of a whistle community.I hope I, m not being out of line here. Mike
C&F is the BIGGEST, BEST-KNOWN whistle board. It’s where EVERYONE WHO IS ANYONE in the whistle community comes to talk whistles. It’s why it’s such a total natural for a whistlesmith forum! Why would yer want us t’ go traipsin’ all over creation t’ share our valyooabul infermashun?