Right, this is a tech talk.
What makes certain whistles require much more or less air than their own counterparts, despite humble ‘you-don’t-need-lungs-to-play’ looks?
What is it that makes the Shaws being known as whistles that ‘take a lot of air’?
What makes it for certain whistles to be labeled ‘easy’?
Is it the mouthpiece design? Internally? Or is it just the bore? Both?
Now, talk!
KT.
[ This Message was edited by: Caoimhin on 2002-10-30 03:55 ]
hmmm, well, I would say it’s got much to do with the mouthpiece, i.e. the little slit where the air from your mouth passes through. If that’s fairly wide the airrequierments would be bigger…well, just a theory..
cheers, aMAr
Area of the mouthpiece opening
Length of the airway to the blade opening
Width of the blade opening
Angle of the blade
Diameter of the tube
Diameters of the toneholes
Length of the tube
Lengths to the toneholes when played open
“Chimney” of the toneholes.
Material of things in the primary airflow.
Smoothness of that material
Not necessarily in that order!
Any questions? 
Cheers,
Bill Whedon
Area of the mouthpiece opening
Length of the airway to the blade opening
Width of the blade opening
Angle of the blade
Diameter of the tube
Diameters of the toneholes
Length of the tube
Lengths to the toneholes when played open
“Chimney” of the toneholes.
Material of things in the primary airflow.
Smoothness of that material[/quote]
The formula:
ƒ/Br=A-mp+LOATBO+WOBO(AOB)diaOTb~diasOtHlz/TbLgth(L_gth_2TnHLZ/ply.opÑ)¿ChIm¬ton-hl. MaT+smth/MaT
(edited to update the formula)
[ This Message was edited by: paul on 2002-10-29 21:50 ]
Paul, that’s right! I just built seventy-two whistles in the last hour, and every one of them proves your theorem to 0.0000001% of nominal! I bow deeply to the completeness of your knowledge!
Now, can you tell us how to spin straw into gold? I’ve spun and spun, and what do I get? Dizzy straw! That’s what!
Been gray and yucky here. I lurv a bit of Silly Season!
Cheers,
Bill Whedon
Bill, Keep spinning! AND drink plenty of good Irish Whiskey (or Single Malt) while you’re doing it. It will look like gold pretty soon! 
(edited to specify type of Whiskey)
[ This Message was edited by: paul on 2002-10-29 23:44 ]
On 2002-10-29 23:41, Paul wrote:
Bill, Keep spinning! AND drink plenty of good Irish Whiskey (or Single Malt) while you’re doing it. It will look like gold pretty soon! >(edited to specify type of Whiskey)
[ This Message was edited by: paul on 2002-10-29 23:44 ]
I just checked out your website - Cool! And since you’re in Atlanta, would you mind terribly making a run down to Earthlink HQ and mooning 'em for me? TIA!
I tried the single malt, and y’know, you’re right again! This is amazing! Problem is, soon’s I sober up, it’s straw again. Guess I’ll have another round!
Cheers,
Bill
Just drink it THROUGH a straw, Bill. Everything will be fine. Your Whistles and all your straw will turn to gold.
-Paul
[ This Message was edited by: paul on 2002-10-30 00:35 ]
On 2002-10-29 11:08, Caoimhin wrote:
Right, this is a tech talk.What makes certain whistles require much more or less air than their own counterparts, despite humble ‘you-don’t-need-lungs-to-play’ looks?
What is it that makes the Shaws being known as whistles that ‘take a lot of air’?
What makes it for certain whistles to be labeled ‘easy’?Is it the mouthpiece design? Internally? Or is it just the bore? Both?
Now, talk!
Hi, Caoimhin, sorry for playing around so long. Your question deserves a decent answer, and I’ll try my best to tell you what I’ve discovered making whistles.
The airway over the fipple is the first place to look at. If it’s too restricted for the key your whistle is trying to play, you won’t get the tube to resonate properly. Similarly, if it’s too large, you’ll get more than enough air to sustain resonance, and the result will be a chiffy, “breathy” sound.
Next is the distance from the end of the fipple to the edge of the blade. If this is too wide, you’ll lose air from the laminar (flat) stream coming out of the mouthpiece due to turbulence and back-pressure. Again, it makes for a “breathy” sound. If the distance is too short, you don’t get enough turbulence to start resonance in the lower register.
If the blade is too high, you’ll lose the lower register because the effect on turbulence will be similar to too wide an opening there. Too low, and you’ll lose the whole shootin’ match, or will have to throttle back on air to get anything from the whistle.
I don’t know the specifics of the Shaws, and my generalizations above are just that - there are so many things that go into getting a decent sound with minimal air requirements, that it’s hard to list them all. Frankly, getting a whistle to play at all, during the design phase, is a monumental victory! Suffice it to say that it’s much easier to figure out where the finger holes go, than how wide the initial airway should be, how far down the fipple is cut, what angle for the blade, how long or short the airway should be, etc.
You do get better at judging these things as you progress in making, but that whistle head is definitely a part to be reckoned with!
To get a “feel” for these variables, I’d suggest making a whistle or two for yourself! I know I’m supposed to be trying to sell you one of mine, according to some people here, but you know what? You’re smart and curious, and I’d really rather see you build one and experience the pleasure of playing something you made, yourself. Here’s a link to a really good article…
http://www.ehhs.cmich.edu/~dhavlena/low-d.htm
And it’s by our very own Dennis Havlena!
Have Fun!!
Cheers,
Bill Whedon
It’s mostly the airway width and height. Other facters come into play, but not as much as the airway.if you have an original Clarke, you can flatten the air way to reduce the amount of air necessary, but you lose some of it’s character in the process.The Shaw has a huge airway that just about pulls the air out of your lungs. They are harder to tweak though because the metal is a lot thicker than Clarkes, and they have additional bits of metal in the airway, at least on the lower models that cover the fipple block. As Serpent said, other factors come into play, but I think the airway is most critical.
Take care, Johnz
On 2002-10-30 00:22, serpent wrote:
Hi, Caoimhin, sorry for playing around so long. Your question deserves a decent answer, and I’ll try my best to tell you what I’ve discovered making whistles.
It’s ok, but I was wondering if certain air requirements restricted the oxygen flow! 
(or rather, too much!)
To get a “feel” for these variables, I’d suggest making a whistle or two for yourself! I know I’m supposed to be trying to sell you one of mine, according to some people here, but you know what? You’re smart and curious, and I’d really rather see you build one and experience the pleasure of playing something you made, yourself. Here’s a link to a really good article…
http://www.ehhs.cmich.edu/~dhavlena/low-d.htm
And it’s by our very own Dennis Havlena!
Bill, I think you’re psychic. Don’t you know that? Yes? No?
I already have plans. No equipment though. Hey, Bill, what’s the next viable material next to copper? Is aluminium ok? Since you experiment so much, thought I might ask.
Now, “air requirements” are about more than just why you need massive amounts of air to play a Shaw whistle! (Answer: Because most of the air escapes before hitting the blade).
What makes some whistles take so much air to push into the second octave? Eg. Overtons have a very narrow airway, but they take extreme air pressure to play the second octave. Why is that? My guess; bore diameter and finger hole size.
Cheers,
Jens
Jeez-- you guys already said everything I wanted to say!
On 2002-10-30 03:52, Caoimhin wrote:
(snip)
Bill, I think you’re psychic. Don’t you know that? Yes? No?I already have plans. No equipment though. Hey, Bill, what’s the next viable material next to copper? Is aluminium ok? Since you experiment so much, thought I might ask.
Sure, build out of aluminium! It warms up more readily than any of the other materials, and is reasonably easy to work. You will need to use a little more care in forming the head, as Al becomes brittle more readily than copper - which simply means don’t beat on it too much! It also comes out with a nice silvery shine when you polish it, and if you lacquer it afterward, will look quite pretty! I made an Al high-C whistle for one of the performers at RenFest, and she really loves it! Also, Alba uses Al, and their whistles are truly beautiful!
Cheers,
Bill Whedon
What makes some whistles take so much air to push into the second octave? Eg. Overtons have a very narrow airway, but they take extreme air pressure to play the second octave. Why is that? My guess; bore diameter and finger hole size.
Its how far the fipple is away from the blade
to near and its hard to get the low octave to far away and the second octave is flat.
Which is why you move the plug on a flute.
If you drill a hole through a fipple plug, and then put a corke in it. it is then possable to adjust this.:roll:
Wizzy
I note with distinct pride that I have managed to solve the high-air-requirement of the Brass Serpent narrow bore whistles! It required milling the fipple plug just 0.020" taller, reducing the windway height from 0.10" to 0.080". As “insurance”, I also lengthened the airway by about 3/8".
It is with even more pride that I note that the Brass Serpent now uses less air for a given note, than any other whistle I’ve tried. That includes:
Gen
Clarke trad
Clarke meg
Sweetone
Chieftain
Elfsong
Serpent “Village Smithy” (formerly my premier “low-air” whistle).
This without sacrificing purity of tone, tuning through octaves, or even much volume.
I’m chuffed!
serpent
Great Bill! Can’t wait to get my new head sample!
(this head I’ve been using is too full from school and all…I think my ears are leaking…stuck on ‘puree’ or something)
Hm. Late. Night!
Mother of Pearl Snake man; graat thread. I just learned more about whistles then I thought I wanted to. I am now looking around my house and seeing nothing but whistle blanks. Thank you very much.
Tom
Well I see the old chestnut has has poped up again.
Must be the time of the year.
The most important thing about playing whistle is breathing, if you want to play any thing bigger than a Bb whistle you have to learn to use your diaphragm to push out the air.
I have lately making a soprano D with minimal
Air requirements, but I find that playing it
makes me out of breath,because I find myself holding my breath and not getting enough air in my lungs.
So whilst it is possable to play two bars with out stopping the oxygen runs out, and at the end of a tune I feel out of breath.
How ever I find I can play a lament, jig,and a reel, on a low C whithout stopping.
So proper regulation of the breathing whilest playing is more important than whether or not a whistle has lots of back pressure, because reducing the size of the wind way = back pressure.
Wiz
On 2002-10-29 21:23, serpent wrote:
Area of the mouthpiece opening
Length of the airway to the blade opening
Width of the blade opening
Angle of the blade
Diameter of the tube
Diameters of the toneholes
Length of the tube
Lengths to the toneholes when played open
“Chimney” of the toneholes.
Material of things in the primary airflow.
Smoothness of that materialNot necessarily in that order!
Any questions? >
Cheers,
Bill Whedon
Yeah, what he said…