On eBay at the moment, a confused flute? “all sections are ORIGINAL and marked with the Fentum stamp, some lightly”. Hmm, I see an H. Wylde stamp. 1796, that’s a good year, right?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=150498993236
No, more like 1845-59 Henry Fentum 78 Strand.
So if I got this right, Jonathan Fentum had a son John Fentum, who succeeded in the biz, then Mary Ann Fentum took over, then her son Henry Fentum. He must have moved back into the family home that was originally Jonathan’s… (confused yet?)
Henry Wylde made flutes for the Fentum’s, so I am not surprised to have his stamp.
Probably a great flute, once it is restored!
Interesting that the flute has the same key manufacture as my Fentum, the marking I.N that was used by R&R and
Henry Wylde.
BTW, Jon, what do you think of this unmarked flute? More of Wylde’s work? Because you have me thinking that ALL flutes were made by Wylde 
.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=120623647778
Well, that stamp on the foot quite adequately clearly says “H Wylde Fecit” above the repeated Fentum stamp. So I don’t think in this case (nice box BTW, seemingly originally supplied for two shillings!) there is any doubt whatever that this flute was made by Wylde and supplied to Fentums for sale under their retail marque. No-one, least of all me, could accuse Jon of unwarranted certainty rather than circumspect speculation in this instance - the evidence is crystal clear!
Also freshly on eBay is this Fentum (from Seb Knight who is selling a whole bunch of decent flutes) - which looks to have a fair bit in common with my J Fentum/Eastes of Cambridge one - which seemed, so far as we could reckon, to be an example of Fentum making and supplying to an out-of-town retailer. That has key stamps “H&I” and “F”, FWIW.
wow auction has ended:
1796 Fentum Wylde Flute English Celtic Antique Scottish
Item condition: Used
Ended: Oct 03, 201013:17:27 PDT
Bid history: 2 bids
Winning bid: US $999.99
is that pretty low or not? what’s your opinion…
That looks ridiculously low to me. Worrying …
Oh, I don’t know as it’s all that bad a price in this instance - a very fine flute with an excellent pedigree, yes, but it not only has a (routine) barrel crack, it has a pretty nasty crack from socket to F# hole in the lower body - very fixable, yes, but off-putting and value-reducing. From the photos, keys are probably, but not certainly sterling - could be GS.
So, U$1k/£633 is not a particularly low result, especially in the current market. Fully restored to stable playing condition, this is still a £1.25k + flute; potentially quite a bit “+”.
FWIW, the in need of restoration “Eastes” Fentum (no case) I picked up last year cost me about £490, as I recall.
Ah, I’d forgotten about all those cracks. And the photos do make it look like GS, don’t they? Sorry - still not really on the case here …
I thought about this one quite a bit, even writing to the seller to ask that he contact me if the instrument didn’t sell on ebay (which he posted for the world to see!). There were enough questions about the flute’s condition that I decided not to bid. It appeared to have wear to the embouchure and tone holes, and the barrel cracks are an expensive repair. The crack to the right hand tone holes appeared to have been roughly glued, which may affect the intonation. It’s missing the original silver endcap, so a collector is not going to find the flute that appealing- it’s going to be a player’s instrument for someone looking for an antique medium hole flute. The repairs including new endcap will probably run in the $500 to $1K range, so at the $1K going price plus repairs you could have $1800 or $2K in an $1800. flute, a significant risk. Most of these antiques play best with a new head by one of our current makers, so if you add the $800 to $1400. that could run you could have quite a bit of money in this instrument before you get to play it and decide if you like it or not.
To me the interesting thing with this flute was the relationships in the mid 19th C London instrument making world it appears to suggest. The Wylde Fecit stamp on the foot would indicate that the body was made in Henry Wylde’s workshop. He operated nearby the Fentums in the Strand area of London from the early 1830’s into the 1880’s. Perhaps his bodies appear with the stamps of various different companies, including Rudall & Rose, his employer in the early 1830’s. The I.N. stamp under the C# touch indicates the keys and possibly the silver end and footcaps came from a silversmith or key maker. Early specialization and outsourcing?
The Fentum company’s history began in 1763 as “music engravers, sellers, publishers” and that appears to be their primary line throughout the company’s existence at 78 Strand, London. The founder, Jonathan, was a flute player and teacher, and several other Fentums were also players and teachers. There are various types of keyed flutes, flageolets, clarinets and keyed bugles in various museum collections with the company’s stamp. Perhaps, like D’Alemaine, the Fentum company sourced instrument bodies from various makers, key and silverwork from elsewhere, then stamped the resulting instruments as theirs, being the retailer.
Right. All of that, plus Jem’s earlier comment, makes me feel better.
Good. Thank you.
Hi,
I was hoping you were the lucky winner, then I would have a chance to restore (and measure) such a missing link as this flute. Seems very close to our Fentums, that have the I.N stamp. Robert Bigio had mentioned that Wylde made some of Fentums flutes.
I think it is unlikely that it had a silver crown, as there is no corresponding silver foot, the keys are nickel anyway…
I guess the I.N. Key maker must have been up the street from them? RR also has keys with the I.N marking, probably more Wylde made instruments.
Vindicated at last! 
Sebastian does have some nice flutes, I got a old boxwood made by senior Metzler from him a couple of years ago…
That looks like a nice Fentum!
whew
thank goodness for Langwills!
We just need the 2012 version 5.3 to come out, telling us all the makers brands that Wylde made for…
Or didn’t make for.
After a while they jump out when you see’em and even more so when you play’em.
Hi, I just won the Fentum 78 Strand London 8 key on ebay from Mr. Knight - as mentioned as being on ebay by Jem, thanks Jem!
I know almost nothing about Fentum. I read the comments above: very interesting, and I wonder if you guys know anything about (1.) the silver band on the headjoint (how commong that might be Fentums, and (2.) if Fentum is a retailer, then is there any way of knowing who made this flute? and why not (3) is Mr. Knight on this forum?
Pictures, well, the ebay pictures: http://cgi.ebay.fr/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=120625736251&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT
Thanks guys,
Shane
Hi Shane - congrats! Not a bad price for a flute that is in playing condition, though ideally needs fuller restoration (head crack)! Nice to know where it is going, too.
The Eastes/John Fentum I have (in the thread I linked previously has a banded embouchure, and I’ve seen pictures of several more Fentums with the same (e.g. one that looks pretty similar to your acquisition that sold on eBay last February for £554 - not playable and with more cracks to fix, but similar crown and foot caps - seemingly also a Fentum house style preference), so it does seem they/their customers favoured that feature. However, the Henry Fentum I’ve been working on (see my FB album) and the other one we’ve been discussing here do not.
Ultimately, unless there is a clear indication such as the “Wylde Fecit” stamp discussed above, then no, you cannot make any firm attributions. Langwill does not help all that much here as, so far as I can tell, the background research behind that tome does not extend to verification of such things, nor indeed is it necessarily possible to discover such things definitively from extant source material. The stamps on the keys don’t help much either, as it seems they are pointing at specialist key suppliers, not at the makers of the flutes - though noting any such stamps and their association with particular makers’ stamps is a useful thing to be doing! (Please et us know what stamps if any yours has when it arrives.) The citations of Langwill that we have been given seem to state firmly that Fentums were makers themselves - but we don’t know what evidence that is based upon. Even seemingly authoritative reference works are only as good as their sources and methodology, and one needs to know about those things to evaluate the synthesis!
So, that leaves us with informed speculation based on subjective opinion of recognisable style etc. - which does have some value, but is obviously not reliable or definitive and (if one is to be honest and scientific) must be stated in appropriately conditional language. (There have been plenty of high profile cases of museums with egg on their faces when artworks confidently identified as one thing on subjective style judgements by their experts are subsequently proved to be otherwise!!!)
Hi,
I used to have a similar Fentum with the crown and foot caps. I think these were options that the maker offered, or the customer asked for. The lip plate was probably for an allergy to Cocuswood. This head is difficult to repair, as the lip plate compresses the wood underneath it, preventing the wood from releasing from the sleeve. the head is actually two pieces of wood, the section with the lip plate, and another smaller section just above the lip plate. This way they were able to have the lip plate captive in the middle of the head, and could use up that small piece of wood that was to small for a foot joint… 
Hard to say who made the flute, as Jem said, Langwill doesn’t mention it. You can see if there are any markings under the C# touch. Henry Fentum was listed as a dealer not a maker, so it is a good chance that it was a made by Wylde, who better to make a Rudall design? I think we would find that his shop was quite busy… And we find form a recent Fentum marked Wylde, some experts are eating crow… 