Hope this is not too much off topic, but I have had this strange experience with House Of Musical Traditions and just wonder if this is common… Please forgive me if this is a bad thing to do.
I wanted to try the flute and order the Olwell bamboo model highly recommended at this website. When I learnt they would need 2-4 months to send it to me, I figured that was too long, and decided to postpone the flute purchase and go for a Low D in stead. When I tried to cancel the order, HMT replied with a very strange e-mail pretending to have misread my message. After reformulating my e-mail and urging them to get back to me in case of confusion; I have not heard a word from them…
This is a bit sad, since I, after hearing about the long time for getting the flute, decided to re-plan this summer/autumn and go for more whistlin’ in stead of expanding on to the flute. I just wanted to broaden my repertoir. Now I’m stuck with a wooden flute to care for, since I find it a bit too busy to practice several new instruments at the same time. I find it better to concentrate on one u ntil I reach a certain level.
I realize I must stand by my part of the deal, but I had no idea about the delivery time being this long. Anyway, I think simply negliging my e-mails is not the best way to do serious business.
I’m sad to say you are not alone. There have been “Several” complaints posted here, and I’ve heard many more off the message board. I also had numerous problems with them when I ordered Olwell flutes from them a year ago.
I’m not often this blunt but they deserve this so here it is: House of Musical Traditions’ mail order service is crap. Plain and simple. For the life of me I can’t figure out why Patrick Olwell still allows them to sell his flutes, he’s so far out of their class when it comes to customer service.
My advice to anyone one wanting an Olwell Cane flute: Order direct from Mr. Olwell, I’ve done this twice and haven’t had a single problem. It also took only 2-4 weeks to receive the flutes.
My advice to those thinking about ordering anything else from HMT: Don’t.
1 If you haven’t actually received the flute, cancel your order. Send a certified letter if you have to.
2 If you received the flute return, it and demand to get your money back.
3 NEVER deal with HMT again.
Has the Better Business Bureau in Tacoma Park MD been notified about these guys? Their service is absolutely lousy. I had two bad experiences with them. I thought the first was just one of those things. The second was a two month long comedy of errors. I will never order from them again.
I learned from others after the fact that my situation, and yours, is not unique. In fact, it is not just people on this list, but on at least two other musical instrument oriented e-lists as well. I do not know how these guys stay in business. If this sounds like a rant - so be it.
The US has several postal regulations and laws that deal with mail order. Since you can’t see and touch the item before you buy it, you always have the ability to return it.(as far as I know..I’m not a lawyer)
When I first put up my webpage, I had HMT on my vendor list, because I’d bought whistles from them, and the service was generally good. That was several years ago, however. When I started getting the ‘out of stock’ spiel every time I called them for a whistle, I took them off of my links list (again, years ago). I’m glad that I quit dealing with them before their customer service got to the level that it appears to be today.
How did you pay for the order? If you paid with a credit card, and you’ve already been billed, you can dispute the charge through your credit card company. If you order something and don’t receive it, or it’s not exactly what you ordered, the vendor must credit your account (refund your money). If the vendor refuses, your credit card company will first ask nicely, and then (if necessary) force the vendor to do so. (Actually, the credit card company will just credit your account and take money away from the vendor’s account - now THAT’S power!)
By the way, Every time a customer initiates this dispute process through their credit card company, a black mark goes on the vendor’s record with MasterCard or Visa International, and this can affect the company financially if they have too many issues with customer disputes.
Credit cards do have their benefits…
Loren (Former Customer Relations Manager for a very large credit card company)
P.S. If you have additional questions regarding this process, please feel free to contact me off the board.
Here’s my House of Musical Traditions story… two weeks ago I called about ordering a SUSATO low F because their price was considerably below the one at Susato’s web site. When I requested black, the guy told me that I couldn’t request a colour and would have to accept whatever colour they sent. When I asked which colours they stocked, he said, “Usually blue, brown, and green.” When I asked if he was aware that these things aren’t even made in blue and green and suggested he might be thinking of blue and green Sweetones, he suggested I didn’t know what I was talking about. I said, “Obviously YOU don’t know your stuff. I’ll buy elsewhere”
At that point, I dialled up the Susato folks and ordered directly from them. Great service, by the way!
The moral of the story…if you order from HMT, you may end up feeling blue. Or whatever other colour they feel like sending you, even if it isn’t manufactured by the maker.
On 2001-08-21 20:29, Blaine McArthur wrote:
Has the Better Business Bureau in Tacoma Park MD been notified about these guys?
I don’t know about the BBB, but I DO have an aunt and uncle in Tacoma Park who are top notch lawyers for the government! I’d bet THEY could get some results!
Not all C&F subscribers will get to see this thread … I wonder if Dale can say anything about the bad experience that folks have had in dealing with this store in his newsletter - being very careful not to say anything that could get him into trouble. Perhaps it would be enough if he prompted C&F subscribers to read this thread.
We consumers should make more use the power of the internet to warn one another of shonky dealers. The only reason we often don’t is that we know the law is an ass an as often as not will protect the guilty.
With all respect, the strongest action Dale could even consider is just deleting their link without comment. Any more would be tantamount to recommending against them based on hearsay.
Actually, I suspect he should probably do just that. While Dale is clear to say the links are not an endorsement of any particular firm, the weight of C&F in the whistle community means that the very existence of the link is an endorsement of sorts. Its not as if there aren’t plenty of other good sellers.
On 2001-08-22 01:23, Jeferson wrote:
The moral of the story…if you order from HMT, you may end up feeling blue. Or whatever other colour they feel like sending you, even if it isn’t manufactured by the maker.
Consumers should also be careful when buying from Song of the Sea: Unless something has changed recently, they don’t allow retruns on whistles! I saw nothing on their website to this effect, but when I bought a Burke whistle from them last year and wanted to return it immediately, because it didn’t suit me, they balked.
To be fair, they were very friendly when I first placed the order, and they grudgingly agreed to allow the return, after some hot debate on the subject. However, they made it clear that it is their policy NOT to accept whistle returns, citing sanitary issues.
Now, I’m not suggesting people avoid Song of the Sea, in general they seem to be good folks and they have lots of other nice products, I just think folks ought to know this is one of the few places that has a “No Return” policy on whistles. Actually, it’s the only place I know of with such a policy…
Loren
[ This Message was edited by: Loren on 2001-08-22 09:48 ]
I enjoy going to their shop. I’ve shopped there in person - they have lots of neat whistle stuff in stock (books, whistles,CDs etc), they let you take as much time as you want, and try out different whistles - they know what they are talking about when you ask them something.
I’ve had nothing but good experiences with these guys.
Hope you guys don’t get down on them too bad - there aren’t enough music stores that stock neat whistle stuff as it is.
I was pondering placing an order from HMT for an Orwell flute - recommended in another thread, but decided to call the man himself, Patrick, first. Just hung up the phone, actually.
We had a lovely chat and he said, as Loren has already mentioned, that I could have a flute in under 30 days. He also faxed me a price list so I will definitely order through him, when I finally decide.
Thanks for the tip though. I think that anyone that has a good or bad experience with E-Shopping should post it…but let’s be reasonable and not trash retailers without some real good evidence of systemic problems.
I’ve spent more money at HMT than I wish to remember. But then I’ve done it all in person at the store. It was within walking distance for 15 years, and that is very bad if you have a sudden attack of WhOA. That was also when they were selling Chieftans and were the sole outlet for Copelands.
The owner, David Eisner, has become much more involved with the HMT educational and non-profit concert-sponsoring activities. That plus a high turnover in personnel recently accounts for the poor service. This is by no means an excuse. Their in-store knowledge has declined too. Although I did almost get an Owell cane E there last week. It was sweet …
(BTW, as a former long time resident, it’s spelled Takoma Park. Still doesn’t improve service!)
Out of curiosity I looked at Dale’s “review” of the HNT on the C&F site. It amounts to a rave review and says quite clearly that “Customer service is good”. Now I accept that this may have been true in the past, but wonder, in view of the horror stories, if it isn’t time to update this blurb (if not remove the link altogether).
I’ve deleted, at least for now, HMT’s listing at C&F’s buying guide. I’m a bit uncomfortable doing it. I did it because there are too many complaints here by people I know and trust to ignore. I’m uncomfortable because people who have had good experiences are probably underrepresented here. I had good experiences, but for the fact that I thought it took them to long to ship things. However, I’ve not ordered from them much lately.
I have had nothing but good experience with HMT so far, but it has always been in person, in store contact. HMT has become my favorite store to visit in the Washington area, however I have never ordered from them by mail or via the internet, and that may be a different story. The people there have always been pleasant and helpful. It’s also one of the few stores where they don’t mind if you try out the whistles whether it’s an Overton or a Generation. On the other hand, they did seem to have less selection in whistles and not as much whistle related items, other than music books, the last time I was there in April. Perhaps, they are reducing their whistle product and are drying up as a quality whistle source? Maybe Dale alerting them to these problems will provide some answers and perhaps, wake HMT up.
For what it’s worth, here’s my experience with HMT.
In late December of last year I ordered an Olwell bamboo flute from HMT over the internet. The order seemed to be accepted normally. At that time I naïve enough to assume the flute would be in stock unless I heard otherwise, so after a few weeks I called to ask what was up with my order. The person I talked to tried to be helpful but didn’t seen to know how to get into their system to actually check on the order. But, he told me not to worry, that I should expect a wait of up to four months for an Olwell flute. At that point I was only a little miffed that nothing in the on-line catalog or in the ordering process let me know to expect a wait.
At the end of April I called again. This time someone actually checked, and determined that my order was not even in their system. They offered to enter a new order then, I agreed, and I finally got my flute a couple of months later.
My impression, based on this single episode, is that the HMT system to process internet orders is just not up to snuff, and that HTM badly needs to either improve its system or quit doing business over the net. I can’t say whether the problems extends to all mail order, or just internet orders.
On the other hand, when I talked to real people on the phone they were helpful and courteous, and did what they said they would do. I didn’t the feeling that I was dealing with bad folks, but with folks with a bad system.
I have had a number of dealings with HMT, almost all of them have been in person. Each has been a delight.
I have heard enough complaints here and elsewhere to agree that their mail order (Internet or phone) is not up to snuff. If your in the Washington DC area, they’re a nice place to stop in; however, there are a number of better internet and mail order vendors.
Just wanted to provide a positive vote for HMT in person and a negative on their mail/internet persona.
