i think that was my way of asking if they were silver. silver tarnish doesnt look like that… is that what nickel tarnish looks like?
i think that the seller should just give it to you, so that he wont be burdened with it. when you’re done, you can just send it my way, i’ll play it a bit, and throw it into the proverbial fire. maybe make a lamp out of it?
Wow, that was quick! Here’s my ebay query and the reply:-
“Please could you say whether the key work, rings and other metal fittings (apart from the pewter plugs, of course) are of sterling silver or German Silver? It is not clear from the photos. Also, what is the “sounding length” and the C#-Eb length (centre of top hole to centre of Eb key with key in line with main run of tone holes) in mm? Also, is that the original cleaning rod peeking out from inside the middle section in the case? Thanks for your help.”
No reason to doubt him. I thought it looked more like silver.
The 257mm C#-Eb length puts it in Terry’s “Improved” category.
Daiv, re the “tarnish”, cupro nickel alloys usually get greenish copper verdigris tarnish where in contact with moisture/gunge, e.g. around knackered pads, in oiled-up key slots and holes, etc. Dry, exposed surfaces just go a dull pewtery colour if not polished, but yellower than pewter - they don’t build up any deposit as such, just a dulled patina. That browny caking on some of the keys looks like encrusted oil to me, as I said before.
I find this very curious:
“My judgment is that all is sterling, I am certain of this based on many years of trading instruments but as is usual there are no hallmarks, so I am not prepared to offer a guarantee.”
If he is certain that the keys are silver, “based on many years of trading,” why would he be reluctant to offer a guarantee? It is easy enough to determine whether keys are or are not silver-- especially by a man with “many years of trading” experience.
Well some are more certain than others.
He’s an experienced trader but it is clear he is not a super flute expert like many are here.
I think octavian440 is actually a Lady, I remember dealing with her a while back regarding a Monzani flute, she answered all questions regarding the flutes condition and e-mailed extra pics, she wasn’t able to play, but she got a flute playing friend to confirm its was playing at A440hz, I think if your interested she will supply extra images, a flute repairer in London that I know also said she was a good straight dealer.
sponge 
Well if that is the case, “she” has a mans name then.
I do believe the legend that was John Wayne was christened a certain Marion Morrison, over hear in blighty Marion is definatly female, but that does depend on which club you drink in
sponge
Well zooming in on the flute, it may indeed be silver, as I see no green slime on it at all. Usually you get a build up around the key seats, I think there is what looks like silver tarnish on the keys, but with the photo it comes out to be more brown. Even if it is nickel, this is a very clean flute!
Where one drinks?
Last I was in London I ducked into a pub for a quick pint not thinking much about the place.
It was really quite cute inside and very tidy.
Everyone was so friendly!
It finally dawned on me.
marion is a man’s name. marian is a females name. think mario and maria. but yes, people cant tell the difference, and some women who are supposed to be marian are named marion.
Cocus, I think you are being a trifle churlishly and excessively sceptical. This person is a regular dealer who has everything to lose by being deliberately dishonest. However, as we all know R&R/RC virtually never (if ever) had their silverware hallmarked. Without getting it assayed (hardly worth it!), would you “guarantee” that the metal on a flute you were selling was Sterling Silver? He/she has offered an opinion based on experience but covered his/her back. I’d do the same. I see no subterfuge here. It is not impossible but unlikely from this person - perhaps from someone none of us had ever heard of or seen selling before and had reason to be suspicious of, but not in this case.
Also, have you looked carefully at all the pictures on the listing? I did so and formed the opinion (before this discussion) that the metal looks like silver, or at least considerably more so than it does like cupro-nickel. Look at the dismantled, spread out pic in particular and at the barrel part of the tuning slide especially, as that is the part which looks most clearly like silver. I think any yellow tinge observable is due chiefly to whatever the encrustation on much of the metalwork is, and also to the ambient light. Some normal, blackish silver tarnish is observable in places, e.g. on the cup of the Eb key. No, the pics are not decisive, but supported by the seller’s declaration, I think the case is clear enough. We know RC made flutes with both types of metal fittings in this period, so there is no particular reason to expect it to be German Silver in this case, though it is obviously a valid question to ask. (N.B. I have no interest or involvement in this and will not be bidding due to lack of funds - I would be very keen to otherwise!)
As to the gender of the lister, I have no direct knowledge unlike Sponge, but “octavian440” as a made up handle is clearly a musical reference (“octave”, “A440”) and thus not gender specific, even if it does also make a reference to a famous Roman who was male! I suppose the “avian” element could even imply “bird”, though I doubt that is intentional!!!
For all of you late Rudall experts: what do you think is the most likely overall pitch level of this flute? The C#-Eb length of 257mm puts it a bit south of A430 on Terry’s charts, and also just outside of his recommended range of 245-255mm for playing at A440 (a very general recommendation, I realize.)
OTOH, Terry’s examples of 7000 series Rudall Cartes all seem to fall in the realm of British High Pitch. His write up of #7120 and his other tables place it at A452, even with a “McGee Indicator” of 248mm.
So, stop me before I bid again!. Please, please, please tell me that it will be impossible to play this flute at modern pitch…
seriously, though, what do you think?
Herb
Just another thought on the apparent reliability or otherwise of octavian440 - look at the Siccama flute listing from this seller - it states clearly that the metalwork is nickel-silver (and it looks like it in the photos). When s/he is sure about something, s/he says so.
I see no-one has ventured a bid for this flute yet, or are you all secretly sniping? Wish I had the dosh!
Herb, just to irritate you, my R&R #4683 from c1843, which has very similar looking tone-holes to this flute, has a slide-closed sounding length of 577mm and a C#-Eb length of 258mm. Depending on embouchure style and ambient atmospheric conditions, it plays at modern pitch with the slide extended 1/3 to 1/2 its range. Even when I formerly played with a more open embouchure, I never had to extend the slide beyond about 2/3. Hope that helps! Apart from not having a Patent Head, this flute looks very similar to mine.
Couldn’t one take a dab of silver polish and apply it to the top of one of the keys, if there was a doubt? In my (limited) experience, the nickel keys don’t shine up.
M
I’ll partially answer one of my own earlier questions - #7049 is not yet on David Migoya’s R&R Catalogue serial number listing (I finally found time to check) - doesn’t mean he didn’t know about it of course - he may have done but had it in his list of pending updates.
David, how is the catalogue? There actually seems to be less live on-line at the moment than there used to be. Have you solved your bandwidth problems with regard to getting all the photos on-line, or is it just the enormity of the task and the need to earn a crust stalling things?
Jem
it’s always a matter of time and priority! I wish not, but such as it is.
Just back from holiday, so now seeing this exchange. My goal is to have the catalogue totally up by Xmas.
The bidder is a well-known fellow, so he’s got experience.
this is indeed a silver-keyed flute (one of the last ones…leftovers from stock).
I had this flute (unposted to the site yet) in my catalogue from the same sale the seller got it from. I put a bid, but it got too high for me. He’s likely hoping to recoup plus.
Hope this helps!
Jem
it’s always a matter of time and priority! I wish not, but such as it is.
Just back from holiday, so now seeing this exchange. My goal is to have the catalogue totally up by Xmas.
The seller is a well-known fellow, so he’s got experience.
this indeed appears to be a silver-keyed flute (one of the last ones…leftovers from stock).
I had this flute (unposted to the site yet) in my catalogue from the same sale the seller got it from. I put a bid, but it got too high for me. He’s likely hoping to recoup plus.
Hope this helps!
Thanks David - for the various confirmations - and for the Catalogue! I do appreciate what a monster you’ve created for yourself! I’m sure many more of us do too. I’ll go on waiting keenly but patiently for the fruits of your labours.
the fruits often now just fall from the tree at my feet.
today just located a 38xx series boxwood Rudall – rather, it located me. Awaiting photos.
It will be listed soon!
dm
$5100 with 6 seconds to go!! Obviously some folk have plenty of cash despite all the doom & gloom.