Request regarding the type of emotional arena CF provides

Poststructural Pub
1

I’ve made this into a seperate topic to try to siphon the inevitable replies off of Cran’s thread. I know I am not a moderator or anyone with any control over what people choose to say, but I would like to make a very sincere plea for the following:

When someone posts to the board and indicates that they are unhappy or frightened and in need of assistance, PLEASE do not write to them and put them down or denigrate their post. I understand the importance to express your opinion of the original post, but slamming a person with “I think your post was offensive” is not nice, and in light of the person’s frame of mind could be considered downright cruel.

I know that if I were moved to share my distresses with the public board in search of assistance and strength, and I were shot down, it would be crushing. And I would seriously think twice about coming back. Is that the kind of atmosphere we want to encourage?

If you don’t have something positive to add, please think twice about responding. If you have never been depressed or utterly, utterly alone it may be very difficult for you to understand just how hurtful and isolating your comments can be.

They’re just words on a screen. But for people who have been very emotionally and socially isolated, like Cran and I (and almost certainly many others) have been, those words can have enormous power over feelings of self-worth and social acceptance.

Just think it over. Thanks.

2

I wish I could have put it as well as that. Well said Av.

3

Took the words right out of my mouth. You and I seem to be on a roll today, JBarter. :slight_smile:

And thanks for saying it, Av. :slight_smile:

Will O’Ban

4

standing, clapping and cheering for avanutria - my thoughts (and said a lot more classy than I did) exactly!

((((((Group Hug!))))))

5

pops another can of Strongbow and raises it to Ava and Cran

looks at two open cans of Strongbow sitting on desk, and it’s only 4:50pm

gulp

6

I think you are committing the very mistake you are warning against. Think twice (and read twice) before you accuse people of putting others down, and understand their side, too. The ones who choose to post here soliciting sympathy and support are not the only ones who’ve been depressed or utterly, utterly alone. Don’t confuse the choice to keep a certain kind of discourse off the chiffboard with denigration of others.

If I chose to start a thread “post nude pictures of yourself here” and proceeded to post a nude picture of myself, should the ones who wish to tell me that this is not an appropriate post refrain from telling me so because I may take it as a slam of my (not so good) looks? If you posted to state “I don’t think there should be nude pictures on the chiffboard” and nothing else, would it be fair to read your post as slamming me and as showing disregard for the lifelong insecurity I’ve felt over my physical appearance?

Edited to add the following: I commend Ava’s motivation and her concern for the feelings of others. Pardon my usually blunt prose. :slight_smile: Also, it occurs to me that perhaps she is referring to the pms Cran claims to have received.

7

can someone explain to me why it’s so important that we all practice tolerance, inclusion, appreciation of diversity, etc. - but as soon as religion is brought into the mix, people get offended?

If we are tolerant of others ethnicity, race, sexual orientation, gender, etc. - shouldn’t we be tolerant of religion (or lack of it) too? And please don’t use the “choice” answer - I can choose to speak another language, too.

8

Hiya Missy - and I’m playing Devil’s Advocate here - The only reason I can think of is that religion is supposedly a matter of personal choice, while the other potential differences, including sexual orientation, are “built into” a person, and they have no choice in the matter. Thus you shouldn’t be offended by someone for their being, say, Caucasian, but you could be offended by them for making the wrong choice of religion.

Silly isn’t it?

9

that’s why I said I “not the choice” answer…

I’ve heard I’m supposed to be accepting of someone who comes from a Spanish speaking country, and speaks only Spanish. If I was to move to another country, however, I would do my best to at least learn the rudiments of the language. I probably would never be able to speak it correctly (I don’t have a good “ear” for language), but I wouldn’t expect those in another country to know English just so I could get along.
So - that type of ethnicity is a choice, is it not? I mean, you come from a certain background, but you can do something to “change” that.

Anyway- religion is thrown into those “non-prejudicial” statements, you know, the “we do not discriminate on the basic of …” But it seems that a lot of people DO - and it seems that that’s perfectly fine to do so with a lot of others.

10

Could you explain this more fully? Who is being discriminated against - I’m not sure that I understand your point.

11

those “legaleese” inclusions in advertisements, etc…
“we do not discriminate on the basis of gender, race, sexual orientation, religion, etc.”

But often when someone brings up religion, there are many who will deny them the opportunity to talk about it. We are supposed to be “tolerant” of others’ gender, race, sexual orientation, cultural heritage, etc. - but not of their religion, or lack there of?

I’m having trouble putting this into words. I guess I’m just having a problem with someone being offended that Cran, who believes for himself in prayer, asking for such.

12

Perhaps if those who feel a prayer thread, or whatever, is out of place ignore it, then it will generally disappear from view except for when those who ARE interested briefly pull it back up. I shouldn’t think it would drastically affect the tenor of the board.

13

Because this is something we haven’t had but reflection on ethnic violence in the 20th century leads many to believe that the human race has no future worth living unless we can change all of that.

Probably because religion has such a terrible track record in breeding intolerance. So too does overenthusiastic ethnic identification I would add, but I assume the disciples of tolerance are aginst that too.

If your point is that those who are religious should be given the benefit of the doubt and accorded respect for as long as they show it, I couldn’t agree more.

On the whole, yes. It really depends on whether or not the religion has superiority and exclusivity built in. IMO, the same goes for ethnic identification, though, so perhaps your point still stands.

14

Missy, I think you should re-read Cran’s original post and the responses. No one had a problem with his request for prayers. What stirred people up (those that were “offended”) was the request for a dedicated thread for the purpose of a Chiff & Fipple Prayer Group.

I think Bloo’s example was spot on for the purposes of experiencing the shoe on the other foot. Or, possibly think of someone requesting a dedicated thread for a Chiff & Fipple Satan Worship Group, Chiff & Fipple Atheist Group, Chiff & Fipple whatever-exclusion-you-can-think-of group. Would you be offended? Never mind whether or not you would publicly voice your feelings, but would you be offended?

Now for a disclaimer: the following opinions and perceptions are based solely on my experiences, conversations, interactions, anecdotal evidence, and are not to be interpreted as generalized, blanket statements about any group of people.

In answer to the discrimination statement and question about why people are offended, it has to be seen from the other side. Freedom of religion does not translate to complete, unfettered infusion of beliefs into the lives of everyone in the country or world. A person of faith has absolute freedom to believe and practice their religion of choice. Where the rub occurs is when that person crosses the line of personal freedom to the point of obliterating someone else’s rights. There is a boundary that should not be blurred, nor erased. This perceived discrimination happens when the boundary is crossed and religious beliefs are forced upon others. The discrimination has been against those non-Christian, or people that do not believe in god. When these groups stand up and say enough is enough, no more forcing your beliefs on us, they are accused of being discriminatory.

This movement of training religious troops and politics in the pulpit is a huge problem in our country that will, I’m afraid to say, culminate in a bigger war of “cultures” than we’d like. It isn’t enough to have religious freedom, but now the movement is to force others to conform to these beliefs. That is the very height of intolerance. Not live and let live, but force to live their way. It seems there is this attitude that god’s law supercedes the laws of mankind, thereby giving a person the right, or obligation, to enforce those beliefs on others, regardless. Does any of this jog memory – religion creeping into politics, laws, leadership… if history is good at teaching us anything, it’s how to repeat itself.

As I said in the other thread, this issue has reached critical mass for some, and most definitely for me.

15

Thank you, Bloo, I appreciate the comment. That was exactly what motivated me to speak up - and as I am naturally not privy to who sent the messages to Cran, my comments were not directed to any person in particular. I have been the recipient of hurtful private messages in the past, though, and I do know how it feels to receive them.

I’m not sure I agree with your counterexample of a nude pictures thread, because I am having trouble coming up with a plausible scenario where your hypothetical photo would be a call for emotional support in a time of great stress. But perhaps I’m just not approaching it from your viewpoint, and it’s very possible I don’t understand the emotional significance of your example thread, and the reason for your reaching out. And since I don’t understand the personal significance such a gesture might have for you, I would do my best not to do anything that would trouble you or make you feel pushed away.

All hypothetical, of course, since I am not aware of your having posed nude on the Chiffboard. :wink:

16

But it’s a darn good idea, and I, for one, say bring it on.

17

As I have set the wheel in motion, I have no problem with the political threads but would not neccessarily want to see a permanent thread for marxist-leninist problem solving or christian-liberal ways to make lives better. I have no problem with people discussing their religion, or asking for support if they think they need it, may that be in the form of prayer or whatever. I just do not at all think an institutionalised permanent prayer group (the last request a while ago was about a prayer healing thread) is appropriate to a multi cultural (well relatively), multi denominational or multi-whatever you want to call it forum like this.

I know you can ignore the threads but to me having a prayer thread would drastically change the face of the forum.

18

I’m still having trouble saying what I want to say in “typing” - so I’ll just add:

I was responding more to the people that had pm-ed Cran saying they were bothered by the thread. When Cran had asked for support.

19

Yeah, isn’t that interesting? It sure brings out the hypocrisy in people.

20

Cran claims to have PMS? That would definitely be cause to ask for prayers…

:wink:

Sorry. I’m incapable of passing up a straight line. It’s a failing in my character, but there you have it.