Here are a few more facts.
How many more do we need before it is safe to discuss this topic?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4711639.stm
Slan,
D.
It was you who used the word ‘mistake’. No-one else has, certainly not the police.
All they’ve done is announced that the dead man was unconnected to Thursday’s suicide bomb attempts (in other words, they are saying he was not one of the four suicide bombers). That’s not a mistake. They’re merely correcting an impression that press reports might have given that the dead man was one of the four would-be suicide bombers still being hunted.
The officers in the case clearly believed it was necessary to shoot the man and on the face of it, all the circumstances leading up to the shooting tend to support the ‘reasonable grounds to suspect’ that the bloke was a threat to life: He was seen coming out of a premises which was under close surveillance by special branch officers and that surveillance was related to the attempted suicide bombings less than 24 hours earlier. He was dressed in an unusual manner which, under the circumstances, led witnesses to believe he was wired with explosives (and if eye-witnesses at the scene thought that, then you shouldn’t have an issue with pursuing officers thinking the same). He ran when challenged, not down some back alley or side-street, but straight to the tube station where he vaulted ticket barriers with what appeared to be the clear intention of getting onto a train full of people. Which he did. Same train station that would-be suicide bombers had attempted to attack less than 24 hours earlier.
Note that the police still haven’t released any details about whether the dead man was or was not rigged with explosives. Such details will emerge in the enquiries.
This is turning into a very tragic tale but if I was in a foreign country and guys started waving guns about it would seem like a good idea to run somewhere where there were a lot of people about, safety in numbers and all that.
Sadly, this is exactly what brought about the terrible outcome and the death of a man who, at the time of writing, appears to have been innocent of any wrongdoing.
Admittedly, the Police are facing an impossible situation but events like this will only serve to further alienate the very people who need to be reassured in these troubled days.
Slan,
D.
I think they need to proceed with the enquiries and make all the facts and findings public as soon as.
I did note though that the dead man had lived and worked in the UK for 3 years and “spoke excellent English.”
i just can’t believe how tragic this is…especially if indeed the fella is totally innocent… 
my god…stringed together coincedences?? i hope not. i hope he was guilty..i hope he was carrying the explosives on his body..
but i tend to believe it was an incredible mistake..
Tragic.
" Met Police chief Sir Ian Blair has apologised to the family of the Brazilian man shot dead by police in south London on Friday.
He said the death of Jean Charles de Menezes was a “tragedy”, but admitted more people could be shot as police hunt suspected suicide bombers"
Hope that they are not Black or Irish..
Slan,
D .
if they think he has a bomb on him, he can still discharge it even if he is down and take out lots of people, so they have to disable him
I think the operative question isn’t what happened after they had him down, it’s on what basis the police leapt to the conclusion that he was a bomber in the first place.
Those who argue that “if the police believed X…” are missing the point. The questions is why they believed X for no reason.
Clearly, there was no direct evidence of any kind–he was just a brown guy in the wrong place.
s1m0n said
Clearly, there was no direct evidence of any kind–he was just a brown guy in the wrong place.
He was an exceedingly stupid brown guy in the wrong place.
I am not normally an apologist for heavy handed police tactics, but based on the limited evidence available, I find it hard to blame the police officer for taking no chances when hesitating could kill him and everyboy in the area.
David
Weren’t there a lot of mistakes made by the British authorities regarding the IRA bombings in the 70s and 80s? Wasn’t “In the Name of the Father” a movie about one of these mistakes? The difference of course is that the IRA never used suicide bombs, but innocent “suspects” were imprisoned and at least one died there.
When did police in Britain start carrying guns? I thought they didn’t… am I wrong?
The other disturbing aspect of the arrival of the suicide bombers in the West is that the sort of situation that has plagued Israel all these years is being exported to Israel’s supporters. The Palestinians have retaliated out of desperation against the occupation and brutality of the Israeli government by resorting to horrific tactics like suicide bombs, and now it’s coming home to the same people who supported Israel in their occupation and ignored the protests from the International community.
The London police are now experiencing the mind-set of the Israeli military in dealing with this desperate and ultimate response to their immoral war in Iraq. The US military is also experiencing the same mind-set in Iraq. By mind-set I mean thinking that any suspicious person might have a bomb strapped to them. This is what led to the innocent man being shot and killed.
Arabs throughout the Middle East refer to the US occupation forces there as the "new Jews." They haven’t forgotten how the US vetoed UN resolutions against Israel for their treatment of the Palestinians, and they know who helped Saddam come to power and armed him and supported his crimes against his people. For these reasons it's no surprise for me that these same tactics would arrive there as well.
All of this adds up to the spread of terrorism rather than overcoming it. Tragically, as usual – innocent people are the victims.He’s not the first guy to ever forget his second language in panic when being chased by men with guns. Remember, he comes from a city in which death squads of off-duty cops go out at night and shoot “thieves”, ie, poor people.
~~
Behaviour during panic has no relation to intelligence, and isn’t predictable.
In this event everyone involved was panicking, including the police.
A distant relative of mine was shot by the army in Northern Ireland. He was a member of Sinn Fein, as are many people in that area of the country, but he wasn’t involved in any terrorist activities.
Check out Garry Kelly’s earlier. The police have Tactical Firearms Units, which are deployed when required.
The army’s tactics in Northern Ireland certainly helped to spread sympathy for the IRA.
Mukade
Come on now, we’ve never needed facts to discuss topics on this board before, why should we start now? 
Besides, this is a Pub. How many pubs have you been in where the only things being discussed by the patrons are those that they have a complete set of facts for? :roll:
All the Best, Tom
I’m just wondering whether, as an innocent chap being chased through a rough part of London by a gang in “plain clothes” claiming they were police, I’d believe 'em. Anyway, whatever you think of the unwiseness of the guy’s actions, they sure didn’t warrant the grisly outcome. No way.
Steve
Steve…
Hard to say, Eh?
If a rabble in plain clothes was chasing me, I might just turn ‘round an’ give 'em what for! (I’m a rather big guy, folks usually dont mess)
by the way…
has anyone ever told you that you resemble Red Green?
You must be a real sight driving around in your Mini. 
Well, like you I wasn’t there, but I doubt that they gave the impression of being a rabble. I can’t think that the poor man had much reason to expect to be chased by armed police in a country where such things are not routine, so he panicked, or didn’t believe they were police, or both. Of course, we’ll never know now what was in his mind except for the one stark fact that it sure wasn’t terrorism. In view of what happened to him, and in front of many terrified eye-witnesses to boot, I do wonder about the way we so carelessly use that term.
Steve
You’re right of course, but in a case like this, what is the point of discussing it when you can be certain that facts will be presented in the incredibly near future? This isn’t a discussion about Tom Cruise’s sanity, it was about a shooting that had the focus of the international media and had. I simply thought it made more sense to discuss later since many questions that would be asked would be answered in the meanwhile.