Its a nice, jaunty hornpipe. . .but it goes below my D range. Okay, I’ll just grab my A and play it in G position. . .but the tune goes too high too. Okay. . .(gritting teeth) so I’ll just fudge the notes around.
Too many to drop without losing the tune and rhythm.
To tight in its melody for me to just jump octave for the notes I can’t hit (at least to my ear it sounds like a pubescent boy’s voice breaking when I do that in this tune).
So what am I to do? Any suggestions? I’m about to abandon this tune and just do it on the hammered dulcimer.
On 2002-02-27 14:48, tyghress wrote:
Its a nice, jaunty hornpipe. . .but it goes below my D range. Okay, I’ll just grab my A and play it in G position. . .but the tune goes too high too. Okay. . .(gritting teeth) so I’ll just fudge the notes around.
Too many to drop without losing the tune and rhythm.
To tight in its melody for me to just jump octave for the notes I can’t hit (at least to my ear it sounds like a pubescent boy’s voice breaking when I do that in this tune).
So what am I to do? Any suggestions? I’m about to abandon this tune and just do it on the hammered dulcimer.
Thx
Welcome to the wonderful world of fiddle tunes. When I read through my Carolan or Reavy compositions, I repeatedly say “%@& Harpers, %@& fiddlers.”
If those fiddle or harp tunes that drop below low D or go up into the third octave are a source of frustration, get revenge and buy a piano! There isn’t a tune in the world it can’t handle or at least none that are audible to the human ear! Then you can play “Kitty’s Wedding” in D, G, A or even C#! And you can play and breathe at the same time! Even sing along if you want! Maybe a medley of tunes modulating through all 12 keys would be nice! Or maybe play in low D or an octave lower, or 2 or 3 octaves lower or higher!
However, there are problems with the Baldwin. I have found that the C nat. sounds flat, all 8 of them! I can’t wait until I can save up enough money to buy a Steinway! Maybe I can find a piano tuner to tweak the Baldwin back into tune. Do you know of anyone who has luck in tweaking his or her pianos? In the meantime, like you, I guess I’m stuck with the measly 2 octaves on my whistle!
On 2002-02-28 14:24, Tom_Gaul wrote:
…And you can play and breathe at the same time! Even sing along if you want!
Yeah, but the audience would disappear and glass would shatter.
Maybe a medley of tunes modulating through all 12 keys would be nice!
Seriously, one of you musical types, didn’t Bach do a piece that endlessly spirals up through the keys? I seem to remember something of the sort.
Or maybe play in low D or an octave lower, or 2 or 3 octaves lower or higher!
AHA! We’ve hit on it! play the tune, then when it goes for the lower stuff, grab the low D whistle and hit those notes THERE, then go back to the soprano and finish the tune! THANK YOU!!!
On 2002-02-28 14:24, Tom_Gaul wrote:
And you can play and breathe at the same time! Even sing along if you want!
Oddly, both of the above are quite possible on a whistle. Playing and breathing uses a technique called circular breathing (hard on most whistles, but possible) and singing and playing is a technique which on sax would be called “growling” and adds a real rough edge to the sound.
Yes, Bach wrote “Das Wohltemperierte Klavier” 2 books of Preludes and Fugues in the 24 major and minor keys that demonstrated the wonder of the well tempered scale. I must learn to play them all when I get my C nats. fixed!
DrRichard,
Interesting point. I heard a recording of Willie Clancy doing the “Growling” that you mentioned at the transition from one reel to another. I couldn’t at the time figure out how he made the sound but it must have been in his throat as he played. It did add that extra rough edge to the start of the tune. It was very effective.
“growling” does work very well on the whistle. Doesn’t sound too appropriate for Irish trad., but if you’re working on some jazz or blues (or kwela?) it sounds pretty nifty. -brett
“I heard a recording of Willie Clancy doing the “Growling” that you mentioned at the transition from one reel to another.”
Okay, I stand corrected, maybe it could work with IRTRAD.
[ This Message was edited by: bretton on 2002-02-28 15:08 ]
“Kitty’s Wedding” is printed in “The Clarke Whistle Tutorial Book” in the key of “D”. This book and the attached cassette tape are quite common,but if you can’t find a copy,I will post the notes here(C&F)for you.
Thomas Hastay.
Nothing is impossible! We just haven’t learned how to do it yet!
[ This Message was edited by: Thomas-Hastay on 2002-02-28 19:22 ]
I heard a recording of Willie Clancy doing the “Growling” that you mentioned at the transition from one reel to another.
Are you talking about the first cut on the “Totally Traditional Tin Whistles” compilation? I assumed that sound was due to the windway of his Clarke or whatever whistle getting clogged up with spittle…
Yes it is track 1 at 1 minute and 18 sec when he does it for the first time at the start of “The Woman of the House” reel. The best way I can describe it is it’s a slight gargling sound added to a slide. Another description might be that of playing a slide and at the same time making a sound in your throat like a horse when they flap their lips! This is beginning to sound a bit ludicrous! He does it a number of times after that and it doesn’t sound at all accidental. In fact I just tried slowing down the track at that point and it seems quite controlled. Sounds more like a way to add a dramatic effect to a slide. I’ve never heard anyone else do it quite like that! I would be very interested in further comments.
Wow Tyghress! I’ve been learning this tune as well this week, what an amazing coincidence? But I’ve been playing it on the Mandolin.
On the whistle I would invent an alternate set of notes for bars 3 & 7, where the tune drops below D. Hence melodic variations! I’ll see what I can come up with for you later on. But would it still be Kitty’s Wedding?
This problem raises two further questions:
What do whistlers & flautists do in a session for such tunes. Do they just drop those notes & come in again where they can, or play a variation? I expect the latter.
When I’ve half-learnt a tune & I’m practising, I often end up throwing in variations becuase I don’t remember the exact notes. i.e, I know I need to get from A to C to E, but maybe not via B and D. Is this how variations on a tune sometimes develop?
On 2002-02-27 14:48, tyghress wrote:
Too many to drop without losing the tune and rhythm.
To tight in its melody for me to just jump octave for the notes I can’t hit (at least to my ear it sounds like a pubescent boy’s voice breaking when I do that in this tune).
I’ve been holding off reacting to this one but Martin: there are only two or three notes below the actual range of the whistle, you can raise them an octave and no pubescent boys in sight. Not to my ears anyway. The common practice is to do just this and honestly it’s no problem at all in this tune.
Would this be the way to handle Martin Wynne’s #1 and #2, or The Home Ruler, which I play on Mandolin but not whistle?
My old Mando tutor Brendan Mulkere did give suggestions for whistlers on such tunes when I was in his class, but as I didn’t play whistle at the time I wasn’t paying attention. My bad.
I know there’s only a couple of notes below D, but I was trying to suggest other possibilities for Tyghress as she didn’t like the sound she produced by raising the notes by an octave.
MCM Transatlantic Whistle Detective Agency - no case too small.
Branches in London & Saltlake City
[ This Message was edited by: Martin Milner on 2002-03-01 07:59 ]
I don’t play the tune but looking at a transcription of Tommy People’s version shows that, as Peter said, there are only two notes below D. I have a 5-string banjo tab by Ken Perlman. He adjusts the tune by playing the first four notes of the third measure an octave up and then using the high D in the instead of the low as the 5th note of that measure and then keeping all the other notes in their original octave. Same thing in the 7th measure of the first part.
Martin, it works fine in the Wynne tunes as well as the home ruler, I held back the reply because the tigerwoman had dismissed the obvious answer to this problem, it is never the less the common thing to do. Improving different phrases or harmonising is a bit of a no-no. I was just playing the tune and don’t find it in any way awkward, though have to admit I didn’t lear the tune for a long while because I thought it would be.
I actually learned it after a session with Micho Russell and Joe Ryan in Doolin in 1989, Joe did the usual Home Ruler/Kitty’s wedding set I managed to get through the Home Ruler then but couldn’t improvise the wedding on the spot (had most of it but was embarrassed enough to make sure I’d have it next time). Micho didn’t either, he cleared off to chat up a few German women, leaving me to have a great hour or so in duet with the fiddler. I got a (very unusual in O Connors) free meal out of it anyway.
I’ll have to give KW a try tonight on the whistle, and maybe I’ll be able to transfer the pieces to Whistle that I currently only have on Mandolin.
Some tunes I have from several different sources, and there are often both melodic and rhythmic variations, so I didn’t think there’s be any problem with changing a few notes - but I can see it would be better to stick with the right note, even an octave higher, as they give these tunes so much of their distinctive flavour.
Peter, I love your little stories like that. The name-dropping is a bit intimidating, but the free-meal part is reasurring. I have been avoiding Kitty’s Wedding because of the below-the-range notes (why bother when there’s so many tunes to learn that don’t require the extra effort?). But now I think I’ll make a point of it. Let’s play it together in a couple of weeks, Tygh.
On the growling or singing at the same time that you’re playing. I’ve experimented a bit with that, just at home. It also seems that Brian Finnigan (Flook) is moving in that direction: He buzzes tongue in what is not double-tounging, not triple-tonguing, but cajillion-tonguing. It sounds almost like a growl.
The technique is well established on the trombone. You can (well, some can) play four-part chorals on ONE trombone. You sound the low Bb, you sing the d and octave and third above that and the F (fifth) and bb (octave) will sound, and so forth. I think the trombone works best for this because it is built on the series of overtones (like all brass instruments), but the tube is only bent twice (not like trumpet or French horn) and that makes it easier to get clear resonances. It’s a bit tricky at first because we are used to open up our windway when blowing, and you have to train yourself to use your vocal chords. (It sounds pretty embarassing if you practice that grunt/growl sans instrument. Try it: Open your mouth, exhale quickly from your diaphram and make a sound at the same time. Hehehe.) I got the effect, but never to the point where I could use it really, certainly not during a solo.
The artist best known for using the technique is the Jazz trombonist Albert Mangelsdorff. He did the singing/playing stuff around the early to mid eighties. It was his thing. Really, truely amazing musician, and remarkable music.
Now I just have to find that Willie Clancy recording.
On 2002-03-01 09:34, Bloomfield wrote:
Peter, I love your little stories like that. The name-dropping is a bit intimidating, but the free-meal part is reasurring.
Now I just have to find that Willie Clancy recording.
Ah, they are just a bunch of nice old guys, I was really happy at the time to get to play with Joe Ryan, and it worked out very well, he used to play a lot with Tommy Reck during the 50-60s and later with Liam Flynn so I could tap into that repertoire. But it is a situation where you want to play your best and when you miss out on a fairly common tune like this one you wil make sure you have it in the future. That’s why I mentioned it, and that’s why I still have the tune now.
As to the Clancy tape, I saw that particular whistle tape in the sales in Powell’s in Galway just after christmas, it was only £2.99 so I thought I’d buy it to play in the car but my wife insisted that there would be no whistle music in the car so I left it. Ah well..
[ This Message was edited by: Peter Laban on 2002-03-01 11:44 ]
[quote]Improving different phrases or harmonising is a bit of a no-no. [quote]
Peter, could you elaborate on the conventions of variation? I know that many recordings of a particular tune can sound radically different from each other. And repeats of parts can be played quite differently. (Great examples are in The Dance Music of Willie Clancy book). I understand that there are passages in a tune that are very distinctive and idiosyncratic to that tune and you wouldn’t want to obliterate those passages. On the other hand, besides jumping an octave, it seems you have other options (if they sound good) like switching to a harmony note or two or playing a roll. I like to play Paddy Fahey’s Jig, which I learned from a Martin Hayes cd. He drops a bit low and my compromise has been a combination of the above ideas. It’s posted on Clips, as a matter of fact. (I need to redo it. I think I play it better nowadays.)
Comments?
Tony
(I’m finished with editing those stupid quote marks. Everytime I click on quote at the bottom of a post, I get a blank field. Then, I type the quote stuff in and never get it right.)
