Ornamental Feels

Whistle
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Under another topic I posted “When describing how to do a cut, roll, tap, slur, or fade; it might help to include what the ornament can add to the feel of a tune.” I thought perhaps folks might post one of their favorite techniques and how it make one of thier tunes feel.

Let me try to demonstrate what I mean with description of a technique I call a ‘fade’.

A 'Fade" is what I call the technique of letting my breath trail off while holding a note. I start with a solid tone and then just let the blowing air relax away. The result is a tone that kind-of ‘fades’ off, sliding a little down pitch as the volume drops to nothing. If I’m playing an ethereal feeling air, doing a fade on the whole note at the end of a phrase can add a feeling of intangablility to the tune and enhance its mystical tone. It’s like the clear image of the note or phrase appears and then slowly melts into the mist.

When I wrote the above description, I was thinking of how I use the ‘fade’ in a specific tune, The Fair Maid of Wicklow (E-minor 3/4). (See Melbay’s 110 Irelands Best Slow Airs). In the third measure on the E quater-note, in the 5th measure on the A half-note, and in the 7th measure E quarter-note again, all lend them selves to this fade to give the Fair Maid a sad unattainable feel. I couldn’t find a copy of the ABC or Gif for Fair Maid; however here is another example with an attached gif - She Moved Through the Fair. The fade could be used in the 7th, 12th, 17th and last measures of She Moved Through The Fair. In each case the measure begins with a tied note (A or E) from the previous measure.

She](http://ecf-guest.mit.edu/~jc/cgi/abc/gettune?F=GIF&U=http://personales.alcavia.net/~jmoreno/tw/repertor.htm&X=35&T=SHEMOVEDTHROUGHTHEFAIR&N=SheMovedThroughTheFair.gif%22%3EShe) Moves Through the Fair at JC’s
.

So tell me how do vitalize one of your favorite tunes? All to better …

Enjoy Your Music,

Lee Marsh

[ This Message was edited by: LeeMarsh on 2002-01-09 15:17 ]

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I have posted a tune in the clips & snips a few days ago, Higgin’s hornpipe, using different embellishments I have introduced different aspects and textures of the tune, bringing out different rhythms and feelings of the same basic melody. One way of doing it, fitting this particular tune. Nothing fancy about it just moving different things around to play with a fairly basic tune.

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I know what you mean about feeling fair maids to be sadly unattainable, Lee! (Haven’t we whistle wallahs all felt this, at some time or other, and wished we played fiddle or pipes instead?)

Regarding ornaments, here are a few thoughts off the top of my head:

Too much swooping and sliding makes me feel seasick. Throat vibrato makes me feel just ordinarily sick (landsick if you like).

Overly fussy, tight ornamentation (double-cut rolls and the like) makes me feel like I’m lying between sheets that are full of toast crumbs. (The only double-cut roll I like is a wholewheat [Montreal-style] bagel - eaten at the table.)

In jigs, I am currently in a phase of exploring them with no or very few rolls. I find the bare-bones feel of the tune more moving. (I’m starting to think that rolls in jigs often cover up the melody to very bad effect.)

But in reels, a masterfully played high part chock-full of flowing rolls, cuts, triplets that keep the tune crackling and bubbling along makes me very excited. Like the hit I get after I have I drunk a double expresso and eaten a big bar of chocolate.

And sometimes an unexpected variation consisting of a change in just one note will cause me to swoon, or cry out in anguished ecstasy.

Best of all I love listening to fine fiddle players who dare to play airs with no vibrato.

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I was thinking about all this last night, personally there is nothing that makes me cringe more than letting a note die on itself by sliding down on it, that low whistled, keyboard blanketted muzak we get all the time is full of it. But anyways, if that is ‘emotion’ it sounds very similar to the tear in the voice of the c&w singer.
A while ago we discussed the Bonzos as a side line, on one of their lps there’s a photograph of the saxophone player holding a sign above his head saying ‘WOW I AM REALLY EXPRESSING MYSELF’ be carefull not to step in that trap, there are many emotions that can be transmitted through the music and emotion for emotions sake becomes very tedious very soon.
Personally I like to bring out different textures and moods that suit the tune, what works in one tune doesn’t necessarily work in the next. I like contrasting understated (i.e. as Steve describes hardly ornamented melodies)phrases with variation, shifts of rhythms and highly embellished lines. You can pull out the stops every now and again but if you do it all the time meaning is lost.
Try to get hold of recordings of the great emotional players like Martin Rochford, Paddy Canny on the fiddle or for that matter Kitty Hayes on the concertina. It’s honesty of expression what really does it.

[ This Message was edited by: Peter Laban on 2002-01-10 04:14 ]

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i need a beer

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Cheers

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The issue of musicians playing with overstated passion, and how to avoid it is also covered in that “Art of Practising” book I’m recommending. Its a really good book!

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I like listening to great players where the ornaments, like rolls and double cuts, just seem to happen and have a natural, non-contrived feel. If you listen to Kevin Burke play the Cliffs of Moher, he actually plays the rolls in the second part softer, almost haltingly.

I don’t like vibrato on the whistle and I really dislike “fades”. I have no problem with fading in the sense of diminuendo, decreasing the volume at the end of a note, but also dropping in pitch is like fingernails on a chalkboard to me. It feels kinda neat to do it on a whistle, but to have to listen to it is bad. It’s like trying to play a ball game while someone is letting the air out of the ball.

I think that many of the emotions and the feel that music can convey are had to grasp specifically or to put into words. That’s the whole beauty of musical expression. Getting the technical crap down to a point where it doesn’t clutter your mind and then just listening as you play is all it takes. The only thing worse than someone playing mechanically is someone trying to play with Soul and with Feeling.

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On 2002-01-10 09:20, Bloomfield wrote:
If you listen to Kevin Burke play the Cliffs of Moher, he actually plays the rolls in the second part softer, almost haltingly.

Kevin Burke got this tune from the late Martin Rochford whom I mentioned above. Like Martin Hayes he was heavily influenced by Rochford, whose playing remains as yet unsurpassed.

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Okay folks, you don’t like vibrato or fades, fine; but, that wasn’t my question.

How do you vitalize your favorite song? Tell me how you use a particular ornament in a particular song, to express a particular feel.

If I used the same words or superlatives in every post the’d get down right boring. So can you help me expand my musical vocabulary?

I agree that too much ornamentation can kill a tune. How did you judiciously apply ornamentation to a tune to enhance the feel of it without overstating? Do you have an example?

How would you make a hornpipe swagger? How would you make a jig bounce? How do you make the waltz a grand romance or if you’d prefer a quite affair on the side? At the next wedding, how do you make the slow air into an affirmation to “love, honor, and cherish,” instead of “Til death do us part”?

When I was an adolescent, a group of my buddies and I would sit down on the corner and “ornament” our conversation.

Hmmm…as I remember it … let see every other sentence has the F-word and every third sentence has the word “cooool”, yep that sounds about right, because then every sixth sentence had “F’ing Cool” in it.

Okay now, 5 years later, those “ornamentations” are not used ever, and every third sentence has an “…ism” in it. Finally 10 years after that, the initial ornamentation resurfaces, but now maybe only once or twice a night and only if the kids aren’t around.

So just as my language matured, help my music mature. You don’t like vibrato or fade? Great! What do you use instead? Otherwise I’ll end up down on the corner with every other phrase having vibrato and every third phrase having a fade leaving every sixth phrase with a vibrato that fades at the end.

Just a request for a little enrichment to help me enjoy my music as much as you …

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I think both Steve and myself offered a few points, including a recorded attempt to make a hornpipe swagger. As I said, every tune has diferent nuances and you go about it a bit differently as appropriate, if not, it becomes formulaic music. And different people do different things and the way you play the tune now may not be the way you play it next week, it alive. Maybe that is what makes for the joy of it.

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On 2002-01-10 11:45, Peter Laban wrote:

On 2002-01-10 09:20, Bloomfield wrote:
If you listen to Kevin Burke play the Cliffs of Moher, he actually plays the rolls in the second part softer, almost haltingly.

Kevin Burke got this tune from the late Martin Rochford whom I mentioned above. Like Martin Hayes he was heavily influenced by Rochford, whose playing remains as yet unsurpassed.

Very f’ing cool info there, Peter! Are there recordings of this Grand Master Rochford of whom I have never heard? TIA!

Lee:
I know I am not competent to speak on this. I haven’t been playing long, and while I’ve been listening for a long time, I can’t say I am steeped in The Tradition. Hell, I don’t even know Rochford.

That said, here is what I do: When I practice I will often cram in every damned cran I can along with rolls, cuts, slurs, dips, cats, taps, strikes, gurgles, throws, and the kitchen sink. Of course I can’t play most of these properly and I am butchering the beat. But I feel that if I didn’t, I would never learn.

In a session I might likewise experiment, but mostly I am trying to learn what the fiddles and boxes are doing, which is usually not that much. If I am playing where I can actually be heard, and I am not just doodling around, I will not use any ornaments that I have to think about. So there are some tunes in which the roll just comes naturally, and I am certainly not going to keep it out just so Bob P is happy and I can
“play from the heart.”

As for how do I get a wedding feeling into an air rather than a funeral feeling? That I think has nothing to do with the actual ornaments. A double cut roll can sound like wedding bells and like a death knell, I suspect. If, while your playing for them, you are looking at the shining bride and the happy, nervous groom, noticing the tears in the parents’ eyes and the blushing bridesmaids and the beaming congregation, and you wish the couple joy and happiness, I doubt that there is anything more you have to do to make your playing sound like a wedding. Just leave out any and all ornaments that might distract you (and all the fades and vibrato). :wink:

Please don’t assume that I know what I am talking about. Thanks.

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Peter, Steve, Bloomfield,
Thanks for your suggestions. In the above posts. I do and did see them, if I had a bit more talent, or more experience, I’d probably understood the “how” part better.

Peter, since I don’t know Higgins Hornpipe, nor do I have music for it, I don’t know what is ornamentation and what is just part of the tune. Your clip of it does ‘swagger’ a bit; maybe I just need better ear training to hear what you did to make it so. … Yea, yea, or maybe it whats between the ears that too dense ;o).

Bloomfield, I like your idea of putting the kitchen sink in a tune in practice and leave out everything that doesn’t feel right when you actually play in session. I suspect at a wedding you (and I) would just naturally include those ornaments that work and seem right and leave out every thing else. I was just wondering if We can figure out some examples in advance.

I don’t really have any of the ornamentation techniques mastered and often feel like I’m butchering a tune instead of playing it or enhancing it. Since I usually play guitar in sessions, I can sometimes hear whistlers, I can feel when they’re on and when their off. I just can’t tell how or why they are on or off. I was hoping I could get from feeling to technique and back.

Just to be clear, I am, for the most part, a newbie to IRTrad and a part-timer at that. Now that the kids are ALMOST out of the house, I’m anxious to improve. Unfortunately, I haven’t found a whistle mentor yet. Some one I can play with and say “Hey that thing you did in the B part of the tune about half way through, sounded cool, how’d you do that?”. I had a mentor (senior player) when I started attending sessions and playing guitar. He really made a difference.

I also figured if some one can explain what they’re doing so simply that I can’t get it wrong, then everyone will understand it.
With the number of newbie’s on the board who are posting from outer mongolia, deadwood, or other rural irish-free zones, I thought they’d benefit too.

Of course all that said, maybe it just me reading everything upside down and bass ackword, I’ve been have lot of those types of days lately.

Whatever it is don’t let it stop you from …

Enjoying Your Music,

Lee Marsh

[ This Message was edited by: LeeMarsh on 2002-01-10 17:19 ]

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Lee,
my advice would be to get L.E. McCullough’s Complete Tin Whistle Tutor (I think that’s what it’s called). After explaining all the ornaments, he gives you four tunes: the Kesh Jig, Maurice Manley’s Polka, the Wicklow Hornpipe, and reel I forget. Each of these is first written straight, without any ornamentation. Next comes a version with grace notes and triplets, then a version with rolls, short and long. Finally McCullough gives you a variation of his own invention for the tune that diverges more from the straight version than ornamentation usually does. All four versions are on the companion CD.

The trick is to learn all four versions of each tune to the point where you can play each version confidently from memory, exactly as it is written. It’s a bit tedious if you just want to get by in sessions and Lord knows I am still working on it. But it gives you control over what to do when.

Through this, and through the other tunes in the book, you learn what works where and you develop a preference. And LE teaches you that it is not good to be able to play a tune only one way, always putting the same roll in the same place (this is what Peter was getting at, I think).

Note that McCullough’s style is sometimes criticised as being too full of ornaments, but if you want to learn to do them, that’s no problem.

Also check out Brother Steve’s (SteveJ’s) page for great pointers.

Hope this is responsive. The only thing I could say on “what do I want to achieve with certain ornaments” is that long rolls should enhance and not muddle the rhythmic feel of the tune.

Hope this helps, pardon the length. :slight_smile:

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Lee, I don’t know what to tell you. I don’t think there’s any magic recipe for progress…

The only way to perfect ornamentation is to keep plugging away at it, but always with reference to some reliable source, in person or on record. I think it’s very important to be sure you know the sound you’re aiming for - let your ears guide you, as opposed to trying to execute some sequence of finger movements described in a book - or on some web site :wink:, or in some techno-crap messageboard thread.

As for emotion, just keep playing the tunes the way you feel them, as the technique at your disposal allows you. This will surely change as your technique improves and as your listening improves, too, and what you can do with a tune will naturally expand.

Listening is so important. An example of what I mean by your listening improving: in my early fiddling days, I listened to a particular record by Tommy Peoples until I knew it by heart, note for note (or so I thought) and learned everything I could from it.

Ten years later I came back to it and listened again. I was thunderstruck by the amazing amount of stuff going on in his playing that I hadn’t even noticed the first time around. My ears weren’t ready for it, and I didn’t know the music well enough. And of course my awe of the man’s talent tripled.

Peter, Bloomfield, here’s a Martin Rochford story. I only heard him play once - Wooff took me to meet him on the way home from Willie Week in 1985. Geoff was hoping our host would play pipes, but after tea and sandwiches he asked me to play a tune on the fiddle. Gulp! (This happens a lot when you’re travelling in Ireland BTW - it’s a good idea to have something simple that you can easily handle ready for these scary occasions.)

After which he went and fetched his fiddle and played for us for a mere 15 or 20 minutes. I couldn’t believe what I was hearing - this burly farmer played reels like they were slow airs, full of tenderness and aching melancholy. It was simply magical.


[ This Message was edited by: StevieJ on 2002-01-10 21:41 ]

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On 2002-01-10 17:36, Bloomfield wrote:
Lee,
my advice would be to get L.E. McCullough’s Complete Tin Whistle Tutor…

I agree. I just bought this book last week and I ditto everything Bloomfield says. McCullough has a great take on ornamentation too–well worth reading.

Dave

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Have you ever tried to write down the notation including all the ornaments? I have seen such notation several times, it was helpful to me, but as we know, it is not used by traditional musicians. I would like to see 3-4 variations of well-known tunes, perhaps with opinion “why in this way”.

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While it’s true that traditionally notation hasn’t been used, I believe it is useful for carefully plotting out a tune. Some one told me that Mary Bergin in one her workshops worked with notation, carefully planning each use of the tongue, each cut, tap etc etc.

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Bloomfield,
Thanks for the detailed description of LEM’s tutorial book. I have several tutorials; but, his sounds like one I need. So…
I just ordered it from TheWhistleShop.com.
Thanks and continue to …

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Lee, I know you won’t regret it. That tutor helped me tremendously. There are also many great tunes in the back. Good Luck!