I know Olwell flutes are great. In fact, I own two of them myself. But looking at the relative prices you’re asking for your Olwell six-key blackwood vs your eight-key Rudall with two headjoints, I do have to ask this question: What’s wrong with the Rudall that you’re not telling us about? Or, to put it another way, what makes this particular Olwell so good that it’s worth nearly 50% more than an eight-key Rudall with a Wilkes headjoint in addition to the original uncracked Rudall headjoint? I have a six-key blackwood Olwell in superb condition myself, but I doubt I could ask $6000 for it. Well, I could ask, but I’d be quite surprised to get it. Why do you think yours can get that much?
Hi John,
Every serious buyer who contacts me gets a detailed assessment of each flute plus the opportunity to speak to a renowned flute maker who has inspected the flutes in detail. Ideally a buyer would come by and visit and play the flute of interest for themselves. I also offer to play them or record audio.
The relative prices are my assessment (rightly or wrongly) of what the market will bear. As you see I’m asking a price or a best offer. I know personally of 3 recent Olwell keyed flute transactions in the $6K + range.
Hope that helps.
Sven
Hi Cathy - thx I appreciate you spreading the word
Ken! Hey how are all the folks in Tokyo doing…still have fond memories..If you guys are ever in Tokyo, Ken is a great host and tour guide!
PM was posted by mistake. I apologize to the Board and to Sven for this mistake.
Best,
Hugh
It seems you missed my point, Sven. If you looked, I bet you could find many more than three $6K-range transactions involving Rudalls, assuming they were in top-flight condition. I’ve no doubt that people will overpay for an Olwell, but my point is that if you think you can get that much for an Olwell, why are you asking nearly $2000 less for a Rudall that should be worth at least as much if not more, if it’s indeed in as good a shape as you say? (And I don’t necessarily doubt that it is, BTW.)
When it comes down to it, I think your asking price for the Rudall is fair, while the price of the Olwell is way too high - which is not to say that someone won’t pay you that much for it. I’d be interested to know what the two top flute makers you mentioned would have to say about your relative pricing - either anonymously or by name.
John,
I know of several used Olwell six-keys that have gone for $6,000. One sold for €5,000. That’s more like $6,500. They are seldom offered on the open market - not to mention a custom flute like Sven’s, with a right-hand Bb touch.
There is a premium that you’d expect to pay to avoid a six-year wait. The premium is about $35 a month, or a bit more than $1 a day. It may not be worth it to you but there are plenty of people who don’t want to wait and who are willing to pay that price. If you play your flute every day $1 a day and $1.25 on Sunday isn’t very much.
A Wilkes keyless went for $3,300 last year. Two years earlier I sold a keyless Wilkes for $1,800 and thought I got a good price. A used Olwell keyless Pratten just sold for nearly 20% more than a new one with a ± ten month wait.
So sure Sven’s Olwell is worth it. Has anybody ever regretted buying a flute made by a top maker? It isn’t over-paying if you want it and you love it and you’ll use it.
And why would a Rudall be worth more or better than an Olwell?
Cocus
Well, as I said, I’ve no doubt that Olwells will sell for that price, and I guess if enough of them are selling at that price then they are indeed worth it. But still I would think that a Rudall in good condition (i.e. needing no work to play at its best), eight key as opposed to six key, and with an extra head joint to boot should be going for at least as much as the Olwell, if not more. Wouldn’t you? What’s the wait list like for Rudalls these days, anyway?
Oh, and your mention of the right-hand Bb touch was the first I saw of that. Sven never mentioned it, did he? Or did I just miss that somewhere?
John,
You stated:
Oh, and your mention of the right-hand Bb touch was the first I saw of that. Sven never mentioned it, did he? Or did I just miss that somewhere?
I’m honestly not sure what you are driving at or trying to imply. I stated very clearly for all to see:
Serious parties please > pm > me for > detailed descriptions > and we can go into > more detail> , including pictures, audio etc.
I have put forth some high level descriptions of these flutes and I’m clearly stating that a detailed description of each flute will be provided for serious buyers and I am doing that.
There are several people who posted here who actually have played these flutes and have spoken to their quality. The pricing is mine to set and I’m very comfortable with it, and I have several people telling me including one of the flutemakers I spoke with today who confirm the pricing is reasonable.
If you are selling flutes you are welcome to set your own prices. Nobody is forcing you to buy them.
I’ve been in contact with Mr. Rudall through a local medium. He has informed me that he won’t be opening his order book again until after The Resurrection.
I am however willing to take down payments on orders and hold them for him until that time. 
Doc
when is Resurrection?
“i must to know”
Sven has been very straightforward and direct about pictures, clips, pointing out potential issues, and answering questions. I took him up on phoning Patrick Olwell, who was happy to talk about old flutes in general, and Sven’s in particular. I’d call this interaction exemplary.
I’d encourage anyone with an interest to contact Sven-you won’t get a hard sell, and you may get a great flute.
Hugh
You guys kill me!
Sven,
Yeah, everybody is fine here. I still have sessions once or twice a month, but am performing more at the live houses or concert halls nowadays.
So can I ask for the photos and detailed description of your girl ??
So can I ask for the photos and detailed description of your girl ??
Ken go to : www.incrediblebeauty.com 
Nothing ominous, derogatory or negative. The fact that this Olwell is a customized flute with a different Bb touch would say to me that perhaps it would command a higher price than a garden variety six-key Olwell (such as my own flute). IIRC, I asked earlier up in this thread what it is that sets this Olwell apart from any other, and you never really answered. The right-hand Bb touch would have been a good answer to my earlier question.
Please be clear on this: I am not saying your asking price for the Olwell is unreasonable or unfair. I’m a bit surprised to learn that the current going rate for a six-key Olwell on the open market is $6000, but apparently it is. If that’s the current market price, then by definition it’s reasonable. I wouldn’t expect you or anyone else to take less than what the market will bear to sell a flute. But what I do think is unreasonable is that the going rate for an eight-key Rudall (that’s presumably in tip-top condition) is apparently several thousand dollars less than an Olwell. So if you are indeed asking the current market price for your Olwell, it seems to me that then your asking price for the Rudall is too low. I inquired about what the flute makers thought about your relative pricing because presumably they would be in pretty close touch with the market for various flutes these days, which I’m not. That’s all I’m asking. Am I totally off base in thinking the Rudall should be worth as much if not more than the Olwell?
Right you are. But I do know this: If I was looking for a new flute and had the money to spend, I’d buy your Rudall before I’d buy the Olwell. I guess maybe I’m the only one here who thinks that way…
In Sven’s defense, the price on the Rudall was my doing, though he ultimately decided whether to agree with me or not.
As a buyer/seller/collector/player of Rudalls, I’m a tad more in tune with that specific market than most. There are several factors that go into the pricing of a Rudall, the least of which is what the market will bear because that can fluctuate so very much.
it wasn’t long ago that a Rudall of good quality would garner only $3000 or so. Now that ranges up to the $6000, but only for the highest-level boxwood Rudalls that are so prized.
Not every Rudall is a pristine work of art, musically or aesthetically. Darn near every Olwell is. Also, there are still many more Rudalls out there than Olwells. RR made more than 7000 simple-system flutes over their lifetime.
I highly doubt that Patrick is even close to that number – or ever will be.
There are many factors to price a Rudall, including playability, serial number sequence, originality of the parts and accoutrements.
Not to mention that some people just don’t want a real Rudall, either because they don’t like the make or are simply too paranoid to maintain one. While there are fewer Olwells about, you can still have it replaced by the man himself should harm come to it.
Other folks are not of the mindset that an old flute plays as well as the newer ones. That’s an opinion that sometimes will drive down market prices. Again, it varies.
So if you’re going to give strong opinions on the price of the Rudall that Sven is selling, it ought to be directed to me. I was the one who made the advice.
dm
Well, David, thanks. You have just answered my original question from further up in this thread, which was basically “What’s wrong with the Rudall that makes the Olwell worth 50% more, or conversely what’s so great about the Olwell that makes it worth so much more than a top-flight Rudall?” (Sven never actually claimed that his Rudall was top-flight, to be sure, but he certainly seemed to be implying that - at least to me.) So in what you’ve said, you confirm my assumption that a top-flight Rudall ought to be worth as much as an Olwell, so if Sven’s Rudall is not going for the same price as an Olwell, then it’s not one of the top-tier Rudalls out there. (Which is not to say that it’s not a good flute or not worth what he’s asking for it.) That’s all I really wanted to know. I don’t know why Sven didn’t give me that answer himself. Perhaps I didn’t phrase the question well, and if so I apologize. Good luck with the sale, Sven. I wish I was in a position to make a bid on that Rudall, but I’m not.
John,
I thinks it’s more a matter of reading precisely what is being stated and not interpret different things which are not being said. And let me be clear I don’t think you are ill intentioned here at all, I think you may just have misinterpreted what is stated.
Dave said the $6K can reached for top flight BOXWOOD Rudalls. Mine is cocus. I never made a claim to it being in that $6K range, that’s why I’m asking $4.2K. I only made a claim of it being an excellent player in A440 which it certainly is.
I think you now understand why I am asking 6K for the Olwell (because that is where the market generally seems to be) and why i’m asking 4.2K for the Rudall (because that is where that market general is and based on my discussion with Dave).
For giggles, wanna swap your Olwell for my Rudall?
Sven
Incidently, I found a session recording I made last summer in England that features both the Boosey Pratten and the Rudall I currently have for sale.
I’m playing the lead with the Boosey, Chris Wilkes is playing harmonies with the Rudall. None of the musicians had played this tune together before, Chris never had even heard of it:
nice tune, was Andrew there, listening?