Hi guys, I’m planning to put myself on a top wood flutemaker’s waiting list right now - hopefully I should be more deserving of the flute when the waiting period ends.
I am not so sure which top maker to order from however - there’s Murrays, Olwells, Hamiltons, etc. I can’t try them in person because there aren’t any Irish flute players who own good wood flutes in my country, so I’d have to settle with the recommendations of other players. Presently, I think I might aim for an Olwell. Could there be a better choice than that for a keyless Irish flute?
I think that Eamonn Cotter (Republic of Ireland) makes an excellent keyless flute, as does Bryan Byrne of the US. I have a keyless Byrne in E-flat and it’s wonderful.
Bryan is probably more accessible than Eamonn, depending on where you are. Though, I’ll assume that if you have no local Irish flute players, you’re probably not in Ireland.
Hi Stuart, I live in Singapore. There are only a few Irish flutes around here right now, a Seery, a Casey Burns, a M&E Rudall, and an Alba - thats as many as I’ve tried. I’ve read about Mr. Cotter’s work and other endorsements of his flutes on this board but from what I hear, (which is the main factor in influencing my flute purchase, being unable to try the stuff first-hand) Olwells are still among the top 3 flutes of anyone’s list. I want to be sure of getting the very best so I’ll never want to upgrade again.
Grinter and McGee are in Australia–great flutes of course. Grinter may be one of those few top tier fluter makers you often hear with Olwell and Wilkes, if people were pressed on the top 3.
Then there is a larger tier of really good flute makers–some of their flutes truly outstanding: McGee and Hamilton would be two of these guys, and there are maybe 10 or so.
Hey Greg, thats exactly the problem - I’m having trouble deciding whether to get an Olwell or any other top notch maker’s flute like Wilkes, Grinter, Hamilton, etc. I don’t really know what are the various characteristics of each maker’s flute so I can’t really make a very informed decision. All their names just say “really good flute” to me. I suppose some might say I can’t go wrong with any of them.
So far I’ve gathered that the reputation of Olwells is that they have a good “bark”, are loud, Irish-y in tone and are easy to play. I’m more inclined to this flute because many famous players, as well as many informed board members give his work high praise. The interview he did on Brad Hurley’s page is also quite well done.
As for Wilkes and Grinters, I don’t know much except that I hear they make very good R&R styled flutes. I know Kevin Crawford plays Grinters, though Chris Loughlin mentioned that the former prefers Eamon Cotter’s flutes if he was playing a keyless. Hamiltons are supposed to have a really “manly” tone.
I think I would like a flute that is responsive enough to enhance the crispness/frothiness of the player’s ornaments and yet able to go well with a strong rhythmic style like Catherine McEvoy’s (my new fluteplaying idol). Ease of play, high capacity for tonal complexity and loud volume are also prefered. Visual aesthetics are not very important to me, just as long as it looks like a normal Irish flute.
[ This Message was edited by: Eldarion on 2002-06-01 02:41 ]
I say get on the Olwell waiting list. You’ll have the waiting period to get your thoughts together. But keep in mind a good flute may not be necesarily easy to play at first (although Olwell’s and Copleys may be different) and the player produces the sound not the other way around.A great flute helps of course. Any of the makers mentioned make great flutes. I’ll add to that Mark Hoza ,who made my 5 key.
Good Luck.
As Asians with a penchant for a little business and a practical worldview…here’s what you should do. You can pay for your flute with others money and get the best flute for your lip and ear.
Here’s how…get on the waiting lists of Olwell, Grinter, Wilkes, McGee and others. Pay the lowest downpayment possible. Then when the flutes start arriving…you can play them all, compare them (bi jiao bi jiao!), and deceide which you want to keep.
then you just post here and other places that you have these killer flutes for sale. You’ll get an immediate return on your investment of at least 30%. And who ultimately pays for your flute? Those people willing to pay big premiums for their impatience (i.e. the Americans).
You can sell and Olwell flute right now for $1800 and you pay only $1100 if you’re willing to wait for 12 months. Think about it.
“I think I would like a flute that is responsive enough to enhance the crispness/frothiness of the player’s ornaments and yet able to go well with a strong rhythmic style like Catherine McEvoy’s (my new fluteplaying idol). Ease of play, high capacity for tonal complexity and loud volume are also prefered.”
Big Holed R&R’s are the kind of flutes that give you this tone and crispness–the flexibility (I feel anyway) comes more from the headjoint and blow hold design than the bore of the flute). Olwell’s are great tone but not the kind of crisp cuts (at least for the pratten model I had and that he is known for) that Catherine does. She uses an original R&R.
You can listen to Olwells with Laurence Nugent and Seamus Egan/Solas stuff. That will give you and idea of the difference.
Also, why don’t you contact McGee in australia and ask him to send you a flute to try. He’ll do that–especially since you’re very close geographically. He’s great and makes a nice flute.
What you have to keep in mind here is that David Migoya brain washed our friend G. here: Convinced him that only out of tune old Rudalls are worth having, then sold him one and got G.'s Olwell Pratten as part of the deal.
G. rambles on about these rickety old Rudalls from time to time, but he’s harmless, and we want him to be happy, so we just smile and nod a lot when he does this
Just act like you believe everything he’s saying…and then go buy yourself that Olwell - can Seamus and Laurence be so wrong? =;^)
Okay Eldarion, all kidding aside, the only way you’re going to know if a flute really suits you is to play it. Obviously a problem for most of us since very few have access to a wide range of flutes. No way to be sure the Olwell, or any other flute for that matter, is going to be the best one for you…you just have to make your best educated guess, or go with your gut, and take a chance. My guess is that opinions offered here will only make the decision more difficult, not easier.
Good Luck.
Loren
P.S. I do know where you can find an awesome used Copley to play while you wait the year or so for that Olwell you’re dreaming of, heh, heh…
Rudalls aren’t ALL out of tune. You just have to know how to play them and what to vent when.
Yes, I should have mentioned Grinter. But I have to keep harping on Bryan Byrne. Not super-well-known because he’s not prolific, but I know that both I and Brad Hurley play his instruments and they’re every bit as a Grinter or Wilkes or Olwell.
The other problem with trying to decide in your situation (being in Singapore) is that Wilkes and Olwells are quite different, as are Grinters. Grinters are perhaps very refined, if a little laid back. Wilkes flutes are smooth and can be loud if you want. Olwells are very-well-balanced and tend to be easier to push than the other two. I’d rave about Byrne, but because he’s less famous, you may not even be considering his stuff.
All three (four) of these makers make instruments which are in tune and have fast response. Grinter makes a wonderful red lancewood flute, a native Australian timber with similar tonal properties to cocus. Olwell and Wilkes, far as I know, make blackwood and box and the occasional cocus.
You’re thinking keyless, right? I think that’s the way to go. I’ll say that my opinion is valid in that you really don’t need keywork for session play. You can half-hole the occasional accidental if you must. And it’s hard to beat the aesthetics of a nice keyless simple-system instrument.
Hi G and Loren, thats quite a lot of points covered. G, thanks for making me aware of the possibility that I might be looking for a R&R styled flute for that strong crisp sound. If you had to recommend 1 R&R styled flute that would meet my preferences (and more), which would that be? Loren, what about you?
You also mentioned Seamus Egan’s Olwell flute sound, but he famous for doing lots of nice crisp/bubbly ornamentation. Do you mean that Catherine McEvoy’s style is easier to achieve with a flute thats even more crisp sounding?
Who knows I might just try out G’s multiple flute testing scheme. At any rate I think I might give Terry McGee an email asking him if he could send an ambassador flute to Singapore.
Hey Stuart, I’m taking keyless partly because I find I don’t really need keys for most Irish tunes, and they up the costs. Also, I play with piper fingering so that automatically disqualifies me from playing any keyed flute. And it seems you really like those Bryan Byrne flutes. I’ve seen a couple of pictures, but have not heard much about them.
[ This Message was edited by: Eldarion on 2002-06-01 13:35 ]
Uh uh, I’m not going to offer any other opinions here on the Rudall vs. Pratten thing. Honestly, G.'s comments didn’t make much sense to me, but I’m neither a skilled flute maker, nor a skilled player, so I’m keeping my mouth shut. All I know is that Pratten, Rudall, Nicholson or whatever, all the good players can make any of the well known makers flutes sound good.
For myself; I just want a flute that’s well in tune, easy to play, capable of good volume and Flexible tone (Barking, Honking and Reedy all the way to smooth and clean). So far my Copley has met that need better than any other flute I’ve played, but I’ve always wanted a Cocus Olwell, so that’s what I got.
Don’t get me wrong, I’d love to try every good flute on the planet, but I figure I ought to pick one flute for now and actually learn to play the darn thing first =;^)
The Olwell’s changed Loren–he’s riding the tall horse these days, waiting on that darn thing.
But I agree with him–hearing all these opinions don’t make decision making easier. You hear these names, this is better, that is better. They’re just opinions.
And if this board did not have opinions…all we’d have are unanswered questions. Good for wisdom, bad for business. And it’s just plain fun to consider and discuss flutes.
Bottom line: Get on the Olwell list and send him a deposit.
He has keyless flutes in stock (no waiting list). He has often sent a potential customer an instrument with a couple of headjoints for a trial run. If you don’t like it then you send it back and no one gets hurt (I think he does ask that you cover postage, but I’m not sure). He’s also willing to set up payment plans with new customers.
Skip does make a truly awesome flute: At one point I bought a used Cooktown Ironwood Healy flute, it was one of the most beautiful instruments I’ve ever seen. Unfortunately for me, the headjoint on that particular flute required a much more focused and consistent embouchure than I could muster as a beginner, so I ended up selling it to someone more accomplished and he loves that flute. Point being it’s a great idea to try several of Skip’s headjoints.
Skip’s flutes have two major benefits the way I see it:
First, Healy flutes are amazingly light and short. The benefit of the light part is obvious, short is a big advantage at those crowded sessions - not so much banging into others, or having to tilt your head waaay to the side to avoid the banging. Now some people will like the balance of this flute, and others may not. Personally I liked the weight, but preferred the balance of the heavier Copley, but that’s just me.
The other thing is, Skip’s flutes have the best intonation of any flute I’ve ever tried, I mean his flutes are amazingly well in tune from one note to the next, all the way up and down the scale - Very, very, very impressive in that regard.
So, to be sure, Skip makes a fabulous flute, hard to find fault with it, unless you pick on the fact that it doesn’t look very trad compared to most other “Irish” flutes. But hey, Skip’s a different sort of guy!
Careful, Loren!
I just got back into town and saw your “brain-washing” post. Tsk-tsk.
Please do me a kindness…don’t speak ill of Rudall&Rose flutes unless you’ve actually spent the night with a good one.
All I can say is ask yourself one thing: Why – oh why! – is everyone of the great flutemakers copying the flutes of Rudall & Rose and of Pratten designs, hmmmm?
Why buy a Strad for millions when you can have a copy for a few hundred thousand, hmmm?
Olwell, Grinter, McGee, Cotter, Wilkes, etc, etc…great makers them all.
But all of them…ALL OF THEM…are making copies (with modifications for the 21st Century standard of people with terrible embouchures who desire immediacy from their tooting rather than delicacy and creativity of tone from…uh…practice!) of Rudall & Rose or Pratten (or both) flutes.
Without exception.
So…end of discussion and argument.
That body double may look like Marilyn, walk like Marilyn and coo like Marilyn…but it’s still only Agnes in a wig.
If there was any “brain washing” going on, it certainly would have been self-induced once Greg put his lips to the flute and blew. You ought to try it sometime.
ah yes…by the way…fyi…Greg bought the Rudall straight up, then asked me later about the Pratten/Olwell and if I’d consider selling it. There was certainly no quid-pro-quo.
and his flute is in Europe now with it’s new owner. Had I wanted my hands on that Olwell (which is slightly better than my own, for sure) I’d have kept it. But…alas!..that would have been highly unethical.
You take my post too seriously, I was just razzing my pal G., as he does to me all the time. You ought to know that by now.
I’m really not interested in getting into a serious debate over the whole Old vs New Flute thing - and it’s certianly a debatable issue, otherwise the Crawfords, and Egans and most other flute players who are up to your high standards would all be playing old flutes - really let’s not go there since there’s nothing to be won by anyone in that discussion.
The us vs them thing does make for some entertaining banter around here, and that’s the context in which my comments were made.
Now, don’t you have some rickety old wooden tubes lying around that you should be patching up or something dude? =;^)
You’re right, Loren
I should have seen it.
Sigh.
I was pooped from a long 13-hour drive, so I guess I shouldn’t have typed my first thoughts.
And the debate is…well…debatable of course.
I think these players use the modern dudes because, frankly, finding an old flute that’s perfect is not easy. That’s why the current makers find one that’s their version of perfect and copy from it. I’ll bet each can give you the serial number of the Rudall or Pratten they copy from.
Anyway, such as it is.
Didn’t mean to sound like a stiff on the earlier post.
All I can say is that my R&R is a killer flute. When I wrote to Chris Wilkes to ask him about the work he did on it and the headjoint, he wrote back almost immediately saying that he remembered the flute well, “#3584, yes! one truly superb example of high victorian craftsmanship” he put it.
And he attached one of the artful photos he made of the footjoint and the cleaning rod he made for it, which was pretty cool. Honk me, baby!
I joke about wanting my Olwell back, but who wouldn’t? I loved it, but I can wait another year or so for the keyed Olwell. And of course the imminent flute d’amour.
Wonder if I should take that sterling silver R&R crown off the patent head and have Olwell put it on a cocus wood headjoint? Now that would be something.
