OK, Here’s my list of flutemakers that I’m thinking about for a flute and some info for having them on my list. These are all makers that are close enough that I can go visit when the time comes. Please let me know if anyone has anything to add or recommendations or experiences with any of these makers. I’m goign to be getting something from one of these makers probably within the next six months so first hand experiences are always useful to the decision making process. I will probably be starting visits next month.
Here’s my list in no particular order:
Patrick Olwell - Location VA, Price ~$1200 Waiting list - 1 - 1.5 years. Excellent resale value, Excellent reviews. My instructor is big on Patrick’s work and I have a Bamboo F by him that is very nice.
Dave Copley - Location Ohio, Price $820, Waiting list .5 years. Good to Excellent resale value, Excellent reviews - especially for beginners. Highly recommended by many people.
Bryan Byrne - Location VT. Price ~$1200. Waiting list ?. Good resale value, Excellent reviews. Highly recommended by many people.
Michael Copeland - Location NJ, Price ~$1000. Waiting list ?. Good resale value, Haven’t seen any reviews about the new flutes since he’s just started making them again but reviews for the previous types and his whistles are excellent.
Skip Healy - Location RI. Price ~$1000. Waiting list 0 - 3 months. Fair to Good resale value, Variable reviews, they seem to be love or hate reviews. I may have to do more than one trip to Skip’s shop to try them out. I’ve been told they are very idiosyncratic so if I go there in the next month, I may have to go back in May or June before making a final decision when I am (hopefully) a little better able to make a judgement call on it. I have to say I love what I’ve heard of Skip’s playing so that’s really a big goad to go up and try his work.
Am I missing anyone in the area? Anyone have any hints? Help? Things I should know about? etc?
Thanks for all the help from everyone so far and for any future help as well.
They’re all good makers.
I have to say, though, you’re shortchanging Skip on the resale value; his flutes will resell as quickly as any of the others – more than some, given name recognition (Bryan Byrne makes a great flute, but is less well known, for eg). They’re great sounding flutes, just look less traditional.
I don’t think you can go too far wrong with any on your list – the deciding factor will be which you like the best to play, to hold, and to look at, aesthetically speaking. You’ve already got the prices and the time-table. I think you’re set. Have fun!
Jim, that’s a great list. I envy you, living close to all of those people! They are a bit spread out, though. I have visited Dave Copley (twice), Pat Olwell (once) and Michael Copeland (twice). All of them make nice instruments. There are, of course, differences between them.
Patrick Olwell makes very easily playable, aesthetically perfect flutes. They are thinner than Copley flutes. If you are willing to wait, this would be my first recommendation. In my opinion, Pat’s are, by very far, the best simple system flutes available.
Dave Copley is an amazing person and makes quite a flute! Copley flutes are also easily playable, if perhaps not QUITE as smooth as an Olwell. Dave is a pleasure to deal with. His price is very reasonable.
I do not have enough information about Michael Copeland’s current production flutes to venture an opinion.
Bryan Byrne also makes fine flutes, but, to my knowledge, he always uses a brass tuning slide. I don’t think his flutes are worth $400 more than a Copley. Bryan dabbles in making all sorts of instruments and I don’t think he’ll be concentrating on flutes for the life of the instrument. So, you could get a collector’s item without the maker’s extended backup. Or maybe he’ll keep his tools if he stops making flutes. Maybe rumors of his fiddle-making have been greatly exaggerated.
Skip Healy makes quite adequate flutes, though there are no C and C# vent holes on his keyless models, making the Low D not as strong as on the other ones. He runs his flute-making business like a small factory, and his flutes, though reliable, lack the handmade character of the other choices.
Jim:
I would consider a Flute by Terry Mcgee.
My Rudall Improved in Blackwood by Terry is WONDERFUL!
It sounds great and is an easy player even for someone starting out…
Terry has a number of inovative ideas in terms of design and makes a remarkable flute. His delivery time for me was maybe 6 or 7 months.
also he will do a short D foot joint if thats what you want…
Mr. F
I think Jim is limiting his search to the eastern US – once he starts to look overseas, you’ve got many, many makers to choose from, some less pricey, and most as good as than the ones he’s checking out (though he’s gotten an impressive list here, anyway). That’s certainly true of Terry’s flutes, Grinter’s, Hammy’s, Lehart, Cotter, and a dozen more.
Probably best to keep his list down, not grow it
Thanks everyone for your comments. I am trying to stay with makers that I can get to and meet in person so that pretty much leaves out all the great makers in other countries, or further than maybe 10 hours drive from NJ (that’s about how far Dave Copley is from me) It’s tough to do more than that on a weekend for a reasonable price and I hate flying.
As far as the resale value goes, I have been watching and checking on people who have stuff up for sale so I have a reasonable idea of what people will pay for some of these. My grading system is as follows:
Excellent: You can sell for what you paid or more
Good: You will lose up to 10% on the sale
Fair: You will lose between 10 and 25% on the sale
Poor: You will lose more than 25% on the sale
Olwell’s consistantly sell for more than $1200
Copley’s are usually in the $700 - $750 area
Byrne, I’ve only seen one for sale and as far as I know it was never sold so I’m really just guessing.
Copeland just started making flutes again but his older models and his whistles have very good resale value so I don’t see a reason why his new ones would be less successful.
Healy’s flutes consistantly sell in the $800 range.
This really doesn’t have any bearing on the playability or salability of the flute but is a better indicator of the availability of the flute. Makers with shorter waiting lists tend to have lower resale values. This applies to other things as well as flutes. If Patrick Olwell had a 6 month waiting list, people would just wait the 6 months and get the flute new for $1200. Since his list is 18 months, people will pay a premium to get one sooner. Not that his work is necessarily better than any of the other makers, just that it is less available than say a Healy or a Copley. This is not to say that the others won’t sell readily. They would sell very quickly, just not for the prices that an Olwell will go for.
Thus, a Copley sells new for $820 and can be sold for $700 - $750 meaning you lose $70 - $120. A Healy sells new for $1000 and can be sold for $800 meaning you lose $200. The Copley is the better value for the money but this doesn’t take into account quality, playability and personal likes and dislikes so Healy stays on my list so I can test those features.
See, economic classes are good for something
On 2002-12-20 07:56, Whistlin’Dixie wrote:
Hi Jim: That was an interesting breakdown!
I guess the issue is, IF you would want to sell it later…
Happy Holidays! Mary
Hi Mary,
Yes, that is a good point. Anything I buy I won’t be looking to sell any time soon. That’s why I’m doing all the research, so I don’t have to buy something else in a year or two. It’s just one of those factors that bears looking at in the overall picture. I’m not weighting resale value too much but it is still there.
Thanks
-Jim
Jim;
I did get an opportunity to visit Pat Ollwell. I live in Greensboro, NC, which is around 2 and half hours from Pat’s workshop in Virginia. Its up in the Shanadoah Valley area. His shop is to cool, it’s in a converted Bank. Pat is a super guy .
I thought I’d be in and out in an hour or so, but stayed half a day trying out all the instruments and jamming with Pat.
Jim ,the idea to visit the maker is a great one as it allows you to try out several instruments of theirs ( assuming they have some completed).
Of interest I had tried out bunches of his flutes but decided on a copy of a Baroque style flute with one key that Pat had copied from the Dayton Miller Collection. I play 18th century music in addition to Irish, so this flute was a nice addition for me. If I had not visited Pat I would not have know he even made these style Flutes… it’s been a year and a half and my Flute should be ready anytime.
Let us know about your travels to the different makers…
Ben
I just got my Copley back.
Didn’t take it to CA but left it
with a flute playing friend here in
St. Louis who
watered it for me. Was afraid that
the drive across the USA in summer
would destroy it, etc. Gee it’s
lovely and easy to play.
As to the other flutes mentioned
above, and the idea of visiting
flute makers, I can only
drool, pant, and slobber…
If you get on Patrick’s list for a keyed flute at the same time you order a keyless one, you’ll be able to trade your keyless sections in for keyed ones and keep your already-broken-in headjoint. It’s a nice way to spread the cost out and avoid the post-partum depression associated with selling an instrument.
IMHO resale value isn’t really an issue when flute shopping. Mandolins are a much better investment. A 2-year old Dudenbostel recently sold on the Mandolin Cafe website for $30,000 (I think that’s about six times the original price), and Loar F-5s routinely change hands at around $90,000 (original 1920s price: $225). I doubt we’ll ever see Irish flutes going that high, barring a dramatic currency devaluation.
On 2002-12-20 10:54, Ro3b wrote:
If you get on Patrick’s list for a keyed flute at the same time you order a keyless one, you’ll be able to trade your keyless sections in for keyed ones and keep your already-broken-in headjoint. It’s a nice way to spread the cost out and avoid the post-partum depression associated with selling an instrument.
IMHO resale value isn’t really an issue when flute shopping. Mandolins are a much better investment. A 2-year old Dudenbostel recently sold on the Mandolin Cafe website for $30,000 (I think that’s about six times the original price), and Loar F-5s routinely change hands at around $90,000 (original 1920s price: $225). I doubt we’ll ever see Irish flutes going that high, barring a dramatic currency devaluation.
You know, I thought about this but if I ever decide to go up to a keyed body, I think I would keep the keyless body too so I could play keyless when I want to.
As far as how much flutes go for. Check this thread http://chiffboard.mati.ca/viewtopic.php?topic=7589&forum=2&6 Not $90,000 but still a good chunk of change. Wonder what an Abell blackwood Boehm system will be going for in 50 years? Just something to think about huh?
It’s true that Bryan Byrne does violin work on the side, but he’s still primarily a flute maker. He loves making flutes; I doubt he’ll give it up. As far as tuning slides go, brass works as well as silver so I don’t think that’s an issue for anything other than perceived value. He’ll make a silver one if you want. Bryan’s prices are in line with Olwell’s, and his flutes are every bit as good (in my opinion, of course, having tried out more than a dozen flutes by both makers).
On 2002-12-19 16:41, JessieK wrote:
Bryan Byrne also makes fine flutes, but, to my knowledge, he always uses a brass tuning slide. I don’t think his flutes are worth $400 more than a Copley. Bryan dabbles in making all sorts of instruments and I don’t think he’ll be concentrating on flutes for the life of the instrument. So, you could get a collector’s item without the maker’s extended backup. Or maybe he’ll keep his tools if he stops making flutes. Maybe rumors of his fiddle-making have been greatly exaggerated.
[ This Message was edited by: bradhurley on 2002-12-20 11:35 ]
Ok, Brad. Indeed, it seems that rumors of his quitting flute-making (something I heard from a friend who has one of his flutes) were greatly exaggerated. I don’t want to pass on misinformation.
“Hi Jim: That was an interesting breakdown!
I guess the issue is, IF you would want to sell it later…
Happy Holidays! Mary”
i find the IF a big one. I have three great flutes now, Ormiston, Healy and Copley. I intended to play each for a few months and decide on which one I preferred. I did that - and so the IF! I don’t think I can sell ANY of them. Each has its own personality/quality and I’ll keep 'em around. I don’t think flute players only have ONE. Almost forgot the Hoza original in Ironwood.
On 2002-12-20 11:34, bradhurley wrote:
… As far as tuning slides go, brass works as well as silver so I don’t think that’s an issue for anything other than perceived value. He’ll make a silver one if you want…
On 2002-12-19 16:41, JessieK wrote:
Bryan Byrne also makes fine flutes, but, to my knowledge, he always uses a brass tuning slide…
Can someone elaborate on the merits of brass versus silver tuning slide?
As an owner of a Bryan Byrne flute with a silver tuning slide, I can attest that he does in fact use silver. He uses brass as well, but only on the headjoint-lining. Anything that shows would be sterling. As an aside, according to Copeland’s website, this is exactly what he’s doing: brass slides with sterling silver trim.
Differences in material . . . well, there’s the cachet of saying a flute’s all-sterling. I think Pat Olwell believes there’s a subtle tonal difference between brass – nickel silver – sterling, but I can’t remember what distinction. I don’t think brass sounds bad. And, I have heard some people say they think sterling’s too soft for a tuning slide, so they always use nickel silver or brass.
Pat and Bryan make excellent flutes. I’ve actually never seen a Byrne flute for sale; I think all of us who have them are quite attached to them. Byrne is a little-known gem of flutemaking, that’s for sure. I wouldn’t know about him had Brad Hurley not suggested him to me as a maker.
Can someone elaborate on the merits of brass versus silver tuning slide?
Thanks,
Matt
I have made tuning slides with sterling silver, brass, and nickel-silver, and also a nickel-silver/silver combination. I don’t think there is an inherent difference in sound, as long as one is careful to achieve exactly the same shape and surface finish. The differences in workability of the materials are enough that you can end up with slight differences in profile in critical regions (like the inside edge of the embouchure hole) which change the playing characteristics.
There is a major difference in corrosion resistance, and in appearance over the long term. Silver is by far the most stable and keeps looking good over a long time, as well as being easy to polish if needed. Nickel-silver gradually gets a greyish appearance. Brass will tarnish somewhat more quickly, and needs the most work to maintain a bright finish.
