If it an't got an

Whistle
1

http://www.gaeliccrossings.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=15613#15613

Well done Phil looks like your on to a winner.
Or You XXXXing BXXXXX

Bottom line is if It don’t got the Alba logo it an’t an Alba

Yes I am a wee bit cross.

But he has not got Fipple art

2

Stacey,

It is such a shame when people steal other people’s designs and ideas which take hard work and dedication, and it is even more shameful when they sell them as their own.

hugs

3

I’d say similar but not the same.
A whistle is a whistle,it’s not what they look like,it’s how they play and feel.
Did Alba steel the squared mouthpiece of their high D from the Overton design,I think not but they look similar but play and feel very diferent.
At the end of the day it’s all a matter of choice and I say the more choice the better.
Phil.

4

Unless it’s your design that was stolen, of course. But since you don’t seem to have any original designs you shouldn’t be expected to have thought of that. :roll:

5

Having played both the Alba low D and the Songbird low D, I can definitely say they’re not the same at all.

Taking a design and putting your own spin on it is not “stealing”. If it was, we’d only have one brand of corn flakes. Most of the cheap whistles share certain characteristics, such as a labium ramp bump. I guess they’re all a pack of crooks. I’ve heard it said that Chris Abell based his design on Susato whistles…that shyster!

Besides, I think McHaffie made a half-moon curved blade like this long before Stacey or Phil did. You going to call Stacey a thief now, Cran?

I found your responses in extremely poor taste, Cran.

6

I have one of John McHaffie’s whistles, and yes indeed, the construction of both the Alba and the Songbird “headjoints” look remarkably similar to it. John’s mouthpiece is designed to be moved though, to adjust the volume of the whistle, whereas on the Alba and Songbird they’re fixed. I don’t think anyone who had the three whistles in front of them would be confused as to who made which.

I’m curious, did the Clarke folks (or anyone else) lash out at Dave Shaw when he started producing his whistles (those conical rolled metal ones, with the wooden fipples, the ones that look like Clarke Originals but without the black paint and diamonds)?

7

Indeed. I seem to recall another maker (Glenn Schultz maybe? I can’t find the discussion via search) that copied an Abell for their original design, thinking it was a more ancient instrument.

I can’t say what other countries may have to say about reverse engineering, but here in the US, it’s not only an accepted business practice, but a respected one. Competitive copying helps breed competition in the market place, keep costs down, and add incremental improvements over time, all good for us, the consumer. We’ve had this conversation here before.

Let’s see what the Yale Law Journal has to say on the subject of reverse engineering:

The Law and Economics of Reverse Engineering
Pamela Samuelson and Suzanne Scotchmer

Reverse engineering has a long history as an accepted practice. What it means, broadly speaking, is the process of extracting know-how or knowledge from a human-made artifact. Lawyers and economists have endorsed reverse engineering as an appropriate way to obtain such information, even if the intention is to make a product that will draw customers away from the maker of the reverse-engineered product.

In fact, there are companies that specialize in reverse engineering:
http://www.mfgquote.com/profiles/Machine-Engraving-United-States.html

Now, granted, the we’re (me, Cran) are in the US. Phil and Stacey are in the UK. That said, if Stacey or any maker has a truly unique design (which this isn’t) there’s an appropriate method to protect that design: Patent. While each country handles it’s own patent process, the Patent Cooperation Treaty exists to help someone file patents across all member countries. Both the US and UK have been parties to it since 1978..long before McHaffie, Stacey, or Phil started making curved windways.

I’d like to point out that there’s no reason to suspect that Phil copied Stacey’s design, any more than there’s reason to suspect that Stacey “stole” the idea from McHaffie. Searching for “curved windway” here will find a number of topics discussing the idea. It’s not really that unique of a theory, and could conceivably have been devloped independently by any number of people. Heck, it’s basically a quena with a fipple plug stuck on, and the quena (with it’s curved windway) is an ancient instrument

8

Not being a professional whistler, but more of a hobbiest with talent LOL… I have noticed the following.
:laughing:

  1. I have played both an Alba and the Songbird and both are wonderful instruments. I have found that the Songbird has a more mellow low tone compared to the Alba, but I don’t want it to come across as saying that the Alba doesn’t have a pure tone, because it does. These two instruments to me are different based on the playing environments that they would be used. One has a soft tone, the other a more cut-through tone.

and

  1. I have said this more than once on this forum. There is just so much one can do with a piece of pipe with six holes drilled into it and there are only certain modifications that can be done to a mouthpiece to keep it fuctional. I can place 5 whistles of different makers on the floor and find similarities in all of them…the difference in them though is the sound they produce. Now that is where the true difference is found and similarities are lost.
9

Well actually ,the Chieftain is a original design.
It was the first low alloy whistle to be manufactured on a production line and become an industry brand AND to incorporate winged blocks back in 97,which others have copied,did I moan about that …no, and also to be used by some of the greatest whistlers on the planet.
If my design advances help other makers evolve their whistles,is that not a good thing for all concerned?
Also trying to keep prices low has been one of my main concerns,look at the Kerry Plastic headed low D,we have sold 1000s of them,was that not my design and my investment in expensive tooling? They have become many peoples favourite low whistle and we continue to produce them.

What you fail to realize is the amount of thought,work and investment that goes into producing a product albeit a whistle or website or CD and I’m sure you have never visited the kerrywhistles site and watched any of the FREE movies or downloaded them.
In fact what have you ever done to promote anything apart from misinformation and twatish remarks?

I suggest that before you go mouthing off about people and their efforts to improve their products that offer good value for money, do your homework, and in any case what would you know about designing and making whistles anyway?
Have a nice day.
Phil (making and designing whistles since 1993)

10

Agreed. It must be something else.

11

All we need know is the Hardy tin whistle, and he will be makin all the whistles :laughing:

12

Good joke! Colin was offered to buy the old style Chieftains from the people who made them for you after you stopped buying from them. They still own the tooling as they paid for them and designed them. The Low D 2 years ago worked out at 12,50 Pound for n/t and 5 Pounds more for a tunable. I would be surprised if the new company that you buy them from charges much more than that. Colin did not go for the offer as ethics kicked in.

Brigitte

13

:smiley: :smiley: :smiley:

14

I see the exact same fight was brought over from GC. Sorry, but I am PMing Dale to lock this sucker.

Adding: and, if he ever cleans out his inbox, he may actually receive the message.

15

What we need here!!

:slight_smile:

16

Ah. Well. The 100% full mailbox, I’ve discovered, simply deletes from the oldest message what is needed to deliver the newest message. Cool.

So, it’s like, a fight STARTS to break out on GC and someone says, hey, you guys take it over to CF!

I’ll lock the thread for now and if someone wants to respond to a particular point, please email me and I’ll look at unlocking it. I don’t think an on-line war of the whistlemakers is appropriate here.

Dale