Difference between Wall Mart and a hand-made-instrument

Whistle
1

Oh yah - just hacked my agent’s email and found this - he was getting ready to be nice, but I got there first!! Damn I LERVE the threat to ruin my agent’s reputation on Chiff and Fipple!!! LOL!. Presented here for your entertainment!! (and you KNOW how much I lerve a bit o’ fun :wink: )

{quote:}
Hi XXXX,

Thanks for writing,

Yes - it’s taken a while - I have in my book estimated deliver in May 2010. I note that I have informed you of the many unexpected delays I have experienced this year.

This year I have had significant delays with a few things - mostly the metal casts that put a 3-month hole in the schedule plus a few other things that are too personal and detailed to go into right now.

I acknowledge that there are more delays than usual, but please understand - there is just me doing this work on the Vambrace whistle. It is pretty much all I do. And above all, I do not release a whistle unless I am completely satisfied with it - sometimes it takes the usual 9 hours when you add up all the steps to make these (after the wood has been selected and billeted for resting and each step is done and cuts set to rest for the required time). Sometimes total effort can be as much as 3 days - and longer if I decide to scrap the whistle and start again. These things add up in a cumulative way. Since all the work is done by myself, I cannot throw money at the project and get other hands on the job to reduce delays - like Wall Mart can. I do not produce consumer goods - others can do that well enough.

If my work is worth ordering, it is worth accepting what I go through to make one. And I have taken no money from you - to date you have bought nothing except my intention to make a whistle - which has, to date cost you no more than a few minutes writing emails.

My whistles might be viewed as the best in the world, but I take that with a grain of salt - it depends who you ask, and there are many very fine makers on planet Earth right now - perhaps you should speak to one of them. I have a friend who makes fiddles - her order book is 10 years and she has, by no means, the longest waiting list you can find for a hand-made musical instrument - and as I associate with more and more of these fine people, I find none of them who can guarantee a completion date - some of them within 5 years of estimate. For instance - a very good friend of mine has just learned his wife has aggressive terminal cancer - his order book will be forgotten for quite a while - just like what happened when his son suicided a few years ago - I will do all I can to support him through his grief - and in the process of that my own orders will go back another few days.

Accordingly, I have decided that your attitude is not something I wish my work associated with - I am cancelling your order.

I wish you the best in life’s travels. But you will get no more from me

Best regards

Mitch

-----Original Message-----
From: XXXXXX
Sent: Sunday, 7 November 2010 3:26 PM
To: mitch@ozwhistles
Subject: Re: Status Report?

Hi Mitch,

We are now coming up (in two weeks) on one year since I ordered the whistle from you. This is beginning to be an unreasonable wait, or at least an unreasonable wait given assurances like the one below from last July. I have no wish to raise my concerns on chiff and fipple, but I’m really getting more than a little impatient with the situation. I ask that you give me a firm shipping date. I will wait for that date, and if the whistle does not get sent I will, sadly, cancel my order. You may make the finest whistle in the world, but that does me no good if I can’t get one.

(signed)
XXXX

{end quote}

Who wants a fight? :slight_smile: …

(Edited for typos - just had a word to my agent - he’s willing to discuss the difference between dreams and reality - but only after he has helped his friend bury his wife and the tears have washed the good earth clean - in the mean time .. work the work, play the music, live the life - and stop being stupid commercial clones - you might need your fleece come winter)

2

This kind of trade (dollars for a work of art and spirit) has the potential to create a temporal master/slave relationship. It can be poisonous when someone (like your agent) is selling something that is a work of art and spirit.

The person on the purchase side, in this transaction, should understand that the spirit of a slave (though temporary) is likely to produce a result with less artfulness and care for their master then for their friend.

I have bought whistles from several makers of high caliber - and not a one was received on the good intention anticipated completion date. I’m not saying that there is anything flaky about the makers. But I do think their general good intentions and positive nature can get in the way of a realistic target delivery date.

I have been a project manager, and I always estimated a 30% addition of time for the all things go perfect delivery date. Life and random occurrences, has a way of crushing milestones.

I think it would be fair for whistle makers (and other artists) to say, “Being the optimistic sort, I intend to meet both of our expectations by delivering a whistle to you by (date). Though it’s just me making these, and suppliers, tools, weather, and life doesn’t always deliver exactly what we expect. There is a possibility that delivery may take twice the time I have anticipated, But that would mean I would be experiencing unexpected challenges. I hope for both of our sakes that does not happen.”

Don’t let this uncomfortable commercial transaction negatively influence your agent’s spirit. The more content he feels, the more magic will be in the product of his artful pursuit. And those with patience and understanding will benefit.

3

:open_mouth: we’d go, at least, double. (that’s 100% fer you non mathies)

We were, almost always, early!

4

Well, I knew that 75% of my resources (software developers) are near the laziest semi-sentient beings on the planet. So my original unadjusted estimates were always generous. :smiley:

We were often “early” as well.

5

Yes, best to “under promise, over perform”. For example, “your whistle will be done this decade”, and yet, 8 years later it arrives. Early! :tomato:
For those on a time schedule, the used market is great. The used forum here as well as the many other sites make it easy to get a whistle within a week or 2. Ordering a custom (can I say priceless?) piece of musical art is nice to have during a projected time frame, but not at the expense of quality.
If you’re going to keep a certain whistle and play it for the next 45 years, would you rather have now, or 18 months from now. Now of course, but at what cost? 20% quality? Probably not.

6

ah, good ones then! :thumbsup: :smiley:

7

That trick worked for Scotty all the time. Kirk thought he was a damned miracle worker.

And, FWIW, Mitch got my Oz to me a month earlier than quoted (but he never once called me “captain” :frowning: )

8

Years before I started making whistles, I came up with Busman’s Law which states “Everything takes longer than you think it will”. Even if you allow extra time in your estimate, it still takes longer. I think this has something to do with the general theory of relativity, but I haven’t had time to look into it.

I’ve been lucky with my whistle customers. Some of them eagerly ask how their whistle is coming along but I haven’t had any threats yet. Most people realize that this is a part time gig (at least for me) and my full time work and family come first.

9

OK. I’m the guy who wrote to Mitch that stick is talking about. I had no intention of discussing that communication in public, but since I’ve been quoted at least to some degree incompletely and in an insulting manner. I’d like to clarify things a bit.

  1. I wasn’t threatening anyone with anything. Probably I didn’t say it very clearly but my intention was to indicate that I’d prefer to express my concerns in a private forum rather than going to a public forum and asking if anyone knew what might be going on with Mitch. It was not my intention to bad mouth him. Clearly this was misunderstood, and I’m sorry about it. However staying off the public forum is no longer possible because of Stick’s comments here. From my point of view posting the private mails to a public forum was AWAY out of line, but done is done.

  2. Let me expand the communications with Mitch a bit: Here is my original order.

Sent: Tuesday, 24 November 2009 2:14 PM
To: mitch@ozwhistles
Subject: Re: Possible purchase


Hi Mitch,

This comes from a different email address so you shouldn’t have any
trouble getting through in the future. Put me down for a Vambrace D
in blackwood. We can talk shipping when you get it close to finished.
Please let me know if you need any money up front. Do I get a case
with that? Gee, next May or so.

Fall is still going on. We are much above normal temperatures. Not
even a day below freezing yet, and aside from some flurries of snow
(in October!) no real sign of winter at all.

Thanks for the response.

Mitch replied that I was in the cue for May 2010

Note the date. No further communications from Mitch. My next communication:

Sent: Sunday, 25 July 2010 8:55 AM
To: mitch@ozwhistles
Subject: Status Report?


Hi Mitch,

What’s the status of the May whistle I ordered that you had to put off
because of the casting issues? Any predicted date of arrival? I have a
late August workshop/festival I’d like to have it for, though I’m not
impatient (at least not more than normally > :wink: > ).

I found out about the casting problem indirectly I believe. At least my records show no communication from Mitch. Mitch’s replies

The molds saga ended up putting a 3-month hole in my build schedule - very
frustrating! I’m working through the backlog best I can. Late August will be
tight - what date? Depending on that date I’ll try to make your deadline,
but can’t promise

My response:

I’ll be leaving town for the festival Aug 24, but I’d much rather you take
the time to get things right rather than rushing to finish. So, do what you
can and I’ll be fine either way.

And later the same day after I mentioned August 24

I have moved your order to the top of the batch .. With any luck it will be
ready in time .. Of course, time in transit adds to all that.. Normal
insured airmail takes 7 to 14 days, express takes 4 to 7 days, but is
expensive.

No further communications until I wrote Nov 6, and those were quoted by stick.

Please note: 1) No communications at any time from Mitch unless I contacted him first. 2) Indications were clearly made that the instrument could possibly be ready in August, but no followup of any sort was received about what might have happened. 3) I had been understanding about the fact that issues that can come up.

I remain understanding about those issues. I’m sorry that my request for some sort of firm date has caused this little schreck out here. It was not my intention to discuss these matters except with Mitch directly. I don’t have a problem with the firm date being put 2 years out if need be. Or, even more. I don’t know how Mitch can make a living if he is suddenly that far behind, but that’s not my problem. It is his. I just wanted, and still would like, a relatively firm date for delivery and some communication from the maker if there are reasons that date can’t be met. I’ve not had the communication. I’ve had two promises of delivery, the second one seemed to me quite firm. At no time was I communicated with about the situation. I am aware that since Mitch does not charge up front he has every right to not feel he must communicate. But I think this is a rather poor way to run a business.

This is not my first or even my 5th or 6th purchase of a hand made instrument or case. I’m used to waiting and understand the issues. But I don’t think my request for some sort of fixed point at which delivery can be expected is unreasonable. As Paul states “everything takes longer than you think it will.” and as someone else noted “under promise and over perform.” Had that been done this issue would not have come up.

I apologize to those on the forum for the length and content of this post. We all owe builders, including Mitch, a great deal for what they have done for those of us who play. It was not my intent to have this public discussion. And I’m not interested in a fight. I’ve written to Mitch doing my best to clarify my feelings, but apparently he either has not seen that message or chose to post here before it came. In any case I will not be posting further about this unless some else either asks a direct question of me or casts further inaccurate aspersions as to my meaning or intent.

Chuck Boody

10

BTW the bold face in stick’s quote of my original message was not in the original message…

And, just after I posted my previous note I got an email from another maker explaining why he hasn’t yet been able to ship an instrument to some of us for a tour. No gain for that person, just a willingness to communicate the situation…

11

I’m wondering whether any of this should have hit the public at all–especially the contents of a private communication without the permission of the original author. Mitch seems to have set this out for a laugh, but one could expect that Chuck wouldn’t take kindly to this.

Better that this had never seen the light of day.

12

Well khl, thing is, that when someone picks a fight with beligerent tones and veiled threats, you must imidiately demonstrate that you are not so weak as to make threats and have no need to veil anything. The threat to go to C&F had to be addressed first to demonstrate that I don’t make threats - I just act - no names were mentioned so the pugalist was protected - right up until he exposed himself.

Now if the pugilist gets away with these kind of intimidation tactics elsewhere, well, perhapse he finds plenty enough weak people that will just allow him to work his will on them. But I’m a stick - what do I care? I do care about my agent tho. . in a stickish kinda way.

13

Under review. - Mod

Thread will remain locked, as is.