Help Identifying Antique Flute

Irish Flute
1

I have been restoring an antique flute that has no maker’s marks. Now that its playable, I’m getting really curious about its origins.

Some of its salient features are:

  1. 9 keys.
  2. A foot that is integral with the right hand section.
  3. A low note of B, operated via a long key shaft that runs next to the long F key.
  4. Relatively small holes.

These features seem to hint at German origin, however, it also has:

  1. Block mounted keys.
  2. A small, inline G# key.

These are similar in style to flutes of English origin.

  1. Its keys are somewhat unusual, in that they have separate cups and shafts, connected via a pin.
  2. The keys and bands, seem to be made from high quality nickel silver, not sterling silver.

The body profile is not really English in style. It seems similar to some Austrian flutes by Koch, which made me wonder if this is a “Nach Koch” flute? Its seems rather nice for a mass-production model though. The wood appears to be acid stained boxwood. There is a slight warp in the lower section.

The workmanship seems to be excellent. The only unusual aspect of its finish is the way the key pads seat. The pads just sit on a flat surface, rather than having the volcano shaped profile that is more common in antiques. Having said that, the key pads do seal very well though, and all the notes sound strongly, even the low B (if I block that hole … unfortunately, the last part of the key was missing). It plays well at A=440 with the slide extended as shown in the picture below. With more slide extension it will play down to A=435.

Please take a look at the picture below and let me know if you have any ideas about this one. Its a bit of a mystery.

Thanks!

2

Hello paddler, that’s a very interesting flute you got there. The cups and shafts put me in mind of the key work of English flute maker John Hudson, however it is clearly not an English instrument.
This instrument strongly resembles a similar flute that was sold as part of a collection at an auction in Alabama. I believe there was a thread about it on here a while back, but the images have come down.

Nice restoration work by the way, it’s looking really tasty!

3

Looks Koch style to me. You may try over on the Flute History Chanell on Facebook as I’ve seen some very similar anonymous Koch like flutes discussed there.

4

It’s a handsome flute, whatever it is. Is hope it sounds as nice as it looks.

5

This instrument strongly resembles a similar flute that was sold as part of a collection at an auction in Alabama.

Hey Uni Flute, you have a good eye! This is that flute. I made an absentee bid and was surprised to get it for only $100!

6

Nice work :smiley:

7

Well done paddler, and I bet this one was a thrill to restore. It’s easy to see the quality and fine craftsmanship of this flute regardless of the fact the maker didn’t stamp it. You can see it has been cherished over the years, and from the crisp look of the embouchure and finger holes it may not have been overly played. Maybe another reason for its great condition. $100.00…, I’ll bet your still pinching yourself !! Are you as happy with the way it handles and plays as we are looking at it ?
Thanks for putting this one up. ( hope for the rest of us ) Most times you see an Austrian type flute up for sale, it comes with jaw dropping price. :astonished:

8

What needed to be done for the restoration?

9

It looks a lot like a Monzani I had. Foot integral to the right-hand section, pads instead of plugs on the foot keys, similar rings, the head is quite similar. That one didn’t have a slide and only went down to C, and the boxwood wasn’t stained. Maybe Patrick Dunn, who has that flute now and can obviously make a better comparison, will ring in.

10

The main restoration task for this flute was to fix a large crack in the back side of the head, opposite the embouchure (not shown in the picture). I had to remove the head liner, clean, glue, and clamp the crack, ream the head so the liner would fit, etc. I removed, cleaned and polished the keys and rings, re-padded the keys, cleaned the body, polished the bore, gave all wooden sections an oil soak, and rehydrated them over a period of several months, re-glued the rings. I still need to finish the french polishing of the body, and try to make my crack repair on the back of the head less visible. Marking the repair involved some sanding around the repair (because the crack was large and not perfectly aligned due to warping), so the acid stained boxwood is lighter in color immediately around the fixed crack. The repair is functional, but I can improve the look of it by applying various stains, but I haven’t finished doing this yet. Fortunately, its not in a visible place anyway. Eventually, I will make a replacement low B key cup to complete the flute, but I need to learn some key making skills before I can do that. I have some of the equipment I need, but haven’t really started up that learning curve. All of this is just a hobby for me, and an educational exercise on the long journey to becoming a flute maker, so it probably won’t happy very quickly.

This flute was fun to restore because it was in relatively good condition to start with, and everything fitted together quite precisely – a sign of superior original craftsmanship, I think.

I wondered about the Monzani connection, but this flute does not have the tenon integral with the head that most (all?) Monzani’s have, and its rings and key work seem more recent somehow. The Monzani’s I have seen all had hall marked sterling silver keys and were clearly hand made individually. The precision of construction of the keys on this flute seems almost automated, and the have no markings.

The flute plays really well, with a strong bottom end, good resonance and a rich tone. I was quite surprised (shocked almost) by this when I first tried to play it. Normally, restored antiques take quite a while for the key pads to seat and for the flute to become fully sealed, but this one played well immediately. Its tuning is good, but the F# is a bit flatter than I am used to, even with antiques. You can almost cross finger Fnat. The key touches are well positioned and it is comfortable to play. Normally, I don’t like it when the foot and right hand section are integrated, because I like to rotate the foot to get the foot key touches in a comfortable place, but this flute works well (for me) the way it is.

11

He already did without suggesting Monzani.

Interesting, because I like my Eb key pretty well where the C# is on this one, and can see I wouldn’t get on with it!

12

paddler wrote - " Normally, I don’t like it when the foot and right hand section are integrated, because I like to rotate the foot to get the foot key touches in a comfortable place, but this flute works well (for me) the way it is."
Peter Duggan wrote - " Interesting, because I like my Eb key pretty well where the C# is on this one, and can see I wouldn’t get on with it!"

I just checked the foot key positions on an adjustable flute out at the moment, and after the examining the set position of those in the photo of this flute, I find they are exactly the same - so this one would suit me. I assumed ( rightly or wrongly ) that most players would have the touches of the foot C. keys position higher up towards 12 O’ Clock, and that my preference was close to the norm. Most German and Austrian made flutes I have seen from this period have them set in similar positions as the one pictured here, so it was obviously a popular setting in this part of Europe at the time. On the Monzanis I have seen to date, all the foot C. keys are in line with the tone holes at 12 O’ Clock. The position does not really hinder operation on either flute I have out or the Monzanis. I thoroughly enjoy playing Monzanis and had not noticed any problem.

13

For me it’s probably a Boehm key legacy thing, so doubt I’d be comfortable with any old-style, articulated-key C#/C set-up when setting them where I can reach is going to push my Eb too low for comfort. And certainly the main reason why I decided against paying for the two most expensive keys on the flute despite sometimes missing the notes they bring!

14

One of the reasons I became interested in antique flutes was the chance to play an affordable 8 key flute. It certainly isn’t surprising that most modern keyed flutes tend to have a maximum of 6. Often makers require something in the order of another £500. or so for the additional two C.'s, making something which is already a big investment for a lot of people way out of reach.

15

Optimal key touch placement seems to depend on a lot of personal factors, for obvious reasons. In my case, I broke my right hand little finger years ago in a skiing accident and its upper joint is now calcified and stuck in a crooked position. As a result, that finger is shorter and less flexible, and I find it quite difficult to operate all the foot keys on any flute. If I get the Eb touch positioned correctly, then its a struggle to extend my finger all the way to the C key. A Boehm-style foot key pattern, on a separate rotatable foot section, is much easier for me to operate than any of the more traditional setups I’ve tried.

Aside from difficulty operating the foot keys, I also have problems accidentally touching the foot keys with R3, on some flutes, so I am in the (probably bad) habit of rotating the foot so that the keys are out of the way (unreachable and unusable). I tend to find E rolls easier with more space like this. I guess the relevance of this observation to the flute in question is that its key touches do not extend too close to the hole that vents E, and that is partly what I was referring to in my comments about comfort and key position.

16

The keys look similar to later 1839 Koch instrument shown here.
http://www.oldflutes.com/viennese.htm

From Boaz Berney:
His model was later copied by many flute makers, Viennese, German and Italian, and he is considered the father of the Viennese school of flute-making. Koch was reputed to be one of the best makers of his time, and his instruments are recommended in treatises of the period by A.B. F?rstenau and George Bayr, the Viennese fl
http://berneyflutes.com/pages/02flutes/models/romantic_koch.html

My guess is this is a nice (German?) copy of a Koch style flute probably later and being boxwood and nickel a lower end model despite the very high quality key work

Beautiful instrument, maybe Jon C or Boaz Berney could help with the B key?

Great find.

17

dunnp wrote

My guess is this is a nice (German?) copy of a Koch style flute probably later and being boxwood and nickel a lower end model despite the very high quality key work

Yes, I think this is a very likely explanation of its origins. It is for this very reason that I have been referring to it as a “Nach Koch” flute, nach being German for “in the style of”, as used in “Nach Meyer” flutes, that are basically Meyer copies, and not necessarily precise copies.

It would be nice to have a genuine Koch flute, but the few I have seen have sold for several thousand dollars, and often not in very good condition either.

Anyway, I feel very lucky to have found this one for the price I did. At that same auction I managed to pick up a nice baroque flute, made by Giorgio Xicluna. He made flutes in Malta in the early 1800s. Fortunately, that flute is marked on all sections and appears to be quite similar to baroque flutes by H. Grenser. It plays well at A=415hz. That one was also a steal.

18

Hello paddler, there was a Koch flute in boxwood and Ivory with silver keys on eBay that finished on boxing day at around £1800, or $2593.81 U.S.

The Maltese flute sound very exciting by the way. Did you have to do any restoration work on it?

19

paddler it looks like you are in good company with the crooked right hand pinkie syndrome. Ian Anderson appears to have managed quite nicely over the years with the same problem, although it has to be said apart from whipping out the odd bamboo one, he remained firmly in the Boehmn camp. Being a relative novice, with the Irish Trad. mostly played in our household, I have only come across one tune I like featuring the low C. keys. Hopefully it’s not called for so often in this genre, and should not impede you too much. I suppose for the odd tune where you need it, you can always use the Boehm, which I imagine you do.

20

I just came across this picture of a very similar looking flute, made by Danish flute maker John Selboe (1807 to 1873) on Kelly Roudabush’s website.

It seems that both John Selboe and whoever made my flute (if not one and the same person) were influenced by Koch’s flutes. Here are two pictures for comparison, the Selboe on top and my unidentified flute below: