can you belive it?
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Antique-Rudall-Rose-19th-Cent-Wood-Flute-Olwell-Shop-/110601554619?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item19c05dcabb
I wonder where the other half is…reuniting this flute would be a cool thing.
Even if the other parts have survived, if compatible and apparently well matched parts came to hand, there would and could be no intrinsic way to prove they actually belonged to the same flute, even if one strongly suspected it. Even DNA matching of the timber to the same tree would not prove the parts originally belonged together.
So the serial number is only located on one part?
Yes. So far as I know, Rudalls were only ever marked with their serial number in one place, below the main, full address stamp on the upper body. Even if a Rudall flute appears complete and integral, all parts visually consistent, there is no marking that can prove all the sections are the original ones. Of course, as most of these flutes spent their lives relatively isolated from each other, unless there are clues to the contrary it is reasonable to assume that a flute which is complete is likely to be fully original.
Nice object; though, I’m surprised to see Patrick Olwell seling this “half” flute. Why surprised? Well, I would have thought he could sell it more easily by making and/or providing the other half himself (obviously as an optional “body and foot” to be used until, if ever, the other half is found). So, I’m wondering why he didn’t do that, and why he chose instead to sell this incomplete Rudall? Interesting. Because obviously the new owner is going to want to have another half built - or else he will need to get Indiana Jones or Sam Spade to find the other half (which, I happen to know, is over there, hidden behind that thing beside the wall, under the whatsit in the where-do-call-it and hasn’t been moved since that time we were talking about).
“So the serial number is only located on one part?”
Aye, and in this particular case in the lid of the original case as well. 
. A very nice object especially for someone who wants/needs an original pristine R&R head joint
Ah, I see. Good point.
sadly there’s a practice out there by some sellers (mostly at auction, not eBay) to “upgrade” a flute…simply by putting the serial numbered section onto inferior flute parts and suddenly having a rudall to sell.
it’s done often with Camp and Wylde flutes…where they might get $1500 on their own, but with the rudall stamp now can see $3000 or $4000. It happens more than you’d like to know.
There’s one chap in particular in the UK well known for doing this (among us who know, that is) and enlisting his sister as the seller so it doesn’t clip back to him. Sad and incredibly dishonest.
For some reason RR never took to putting serial numbers to all the parts of the flute, a practice that started with Siccama/Hudson, then Hudson on his Pratten flutes and then Boosey, who had employed Hudson. I thought Monzani had done the same, but think my memory is faulty on that. Jem?
Nevertheless, RR had enlisted the certificates in the lid, of course, to ward off “frauds” but I think it was in time they realized that the certificate simply proved the case was original, not the flute inside since the certificate did not have any identifier to match the flute. The new batch with cartouches showed up and now RR placed the serial number of the flute onto the certificate. Duh.
This is a very nice flute Pat is selling, even if just a 1/2. It would fit nicely with another I have of very very close serial number. Sadly, I think $1400 is a high price for was is essentially an incomplete instrument. does that mean a whole flute would cost $2800?
I’d not pay the 1400 without a commitment to have the other half made precisely to the proper dimensions of a flute of that series…and w/in a specific time frame. Who wants to wait 5 years? I’ve been waiting 2 for a custom headpiece (and perhaps longer as each day goes by) from a maker out there for a full bodied Pratten flute. sure, I paid for teh incomplete flute…but I still just have a hunk of unplayable wood – despite the promise (empty of course) made to me to have it done in a reasonable amount of time.
I was amused to read the certificate on that Rudall case, photographed by Patrick Olwell, and thought it offered a good lesson before buying a flute stamped Rudall… Obviously, anything sold by Patrick Olwell will be genuine and very good quality. But after reading that certificate, I’d be wary of flutes that have not been verified by a trusted expert. Ironically, I wonder how many ‘false’ Rudalls have contributed to pushing up the prices of real Rudalls (and Booseys, etc)?
As far as the “full Rudall” on Ebay is concerned, I bought my Prowse from the same seller, and was very happy; I’ve seen him sell a number of very good flutes.
I don’t know, the flute seems like fair value to me. A professional classical flute player will pay $1,000-1,500 for a wooden head joint, never mind one that is 160 years old, “in almost mint condition”, with tuning barrel and first joint, and with an original case. If complete the flute would go for well over twice the price listed here. The price of silver has increased enormously over the past few years. Everybody who knows Patrick Olwell knows that he is decidedly not greedy. His flutes are priced below those of many other makers.
Olwell is offering the best parts of a Rudall flute, in excellent condition, for what I think is a fair price. If the flute was complete the price would be well in excess of double what he is asking. If some people don’t think it is a fair price then they shouldn’t bid on it. But there is a lot of negative stuff in that post that has nothing to do with Olwell.
Julia, I really don’t think that someone is thinking anything wrong about Mr.Olwell at all.
and of course the man know how to give an intresting price even with just half flute!
Well, one thing is certain, this kit will give any modern maker an excellent chance to cure any ‘flat-foot’ syndrome whilst making up the other parts.
Bob
If complete ..<<<
the operative phrase, Dave.
A car without an engine is…a large immobile metal hulk.
This is not a flute being sold without a head piece…which presumably (though I can attest from first-hand experience this is not the case with some makers) is a very short wait. In that case, you’ve got a “complete” flute in no time since the headpiece isn’t nearly as critical a component as the other parts (by that, I mean a headpiece works from one flute to the next more readily than the right-hand and foot piece;not always, of course but certainly more times than not).
A body and foot combination takes a longer time to have made. After all…it’s nearly a whole keyed flute. Why so long? Because the makers – Pat included – aren’t churning out keyed flutes all the time. Ergo the long LONG waiting periods for them. The money is in keyless, the artwork is in the keyed.
This is a flute missing its legs and arms. Making a matching body requires some very critical measuring and matching, to the bore above it and the lengths of each hole according to size and distance. A maker without thorough knowledge of these bits of info – and I think we’re all safe to say Pat is surely one of them (added: WHO HAS)-- would not do a justified job in making the bottom half of this flute.
I’m not sure “julia” is pointing out the criticism as my own, but if so, it’s not personal. It’s business. Money is not that easy to come by these days and decisions must be made more carefully. And this board affords folks – even Julia – the opportunity to critique and opinionate – fairly. So, he’s right – I won’t be bidding on this “flu” – it’s not a fluTE yet – and my previous advice stands, that whomever buys it first ensure they have a firm contract to have the rest of it made. Otherwise, you’re likely to have the flu for a long long time.
Is it worth $1400? Yes…with a firm contract in hand to have the rest made in an x-period of time – from the seller or any other qualified maker out there with the experience to do the job right and within a reasonable amount of time.
Oh…and I didn’t even yet mention trying to match the figured cocus wood. Good luck with that. Doable, yes. Easy? No.
I think this would be a very good buy for anyone interested in Rudalls. I doubt it would kindle the interest of a beginner, but more likely a player who already has a decent working instrument, and therefore isn’t chafing at the bit to get the bottom end made to complete the instrument. This flute must also be very interesting to someone who already owns a similar Rudall with a damaged head joint. 893 sterling =1002 euros is a decent price for this half flute and box in such good condition
Apparently, Steamie, you and I are not in the know…
I assume that David Migoya means "Pat is surely not one of them, " rather than as he stated: A maker without thorough knowledge of these bits of info – and I think we’re all safe to say Pat is surely one of them…
Good thing journalists have editors to help them say what they meant to say. Unless DM meant to include Pat as a maker without thorough knowledge…? 
only an ass---- would think that was what i meant to write. I respect Pat, totally. Always have.
And, yes, even great writers need editors…that’s why they’re there.
Except, of course, for you bloggers and posters who write without ever first checking facts and obfuscate opinion for fact…and of course…everything we read on the Net is true, isn’t it?
Then again…at the least I have the courage and professionalism to stand in front of my own name – David Migoya – when I write anything. People know who I am, what I have to say and where to find me should they ever choose to dispute it. That’s one thing I appreciated, too, about Andrew Kirby (rip). Though we hardly ever agreed on anything, he never hid behind anything.
When I’m wrong, I admit with an apology and a handshake.
No pseudonym for me, “Julie” ole babe.
Pretty damn easy to cast a stone at people when you’re wearing a hood.
And btw…I’m also the first one to provide full disclosure when I’m peddling something, or providing any information that could sway someone’s decision.
So if I were to say, I dunno, perhaps, that someone “… is offering the best parts of a Rudall flute, in excellent condition, for what I think is a fair price. If the flute was complete the price would be well in excess of double what he is asking…” it would be a good idea to disclose the very personal (and professional) relationship behind such accolades in support of such a sale, wouldn’t you think? Would make it clear to folks that the opinion is hardly unbiased.
I dunno…maybe that’s just me. Ethics, you know. They’re sort of important to some people.
If the flute was complete > the price would be well in excess of double what he is asking…
And so would the Mona Lisa if cut in half. Just imagine if the Venus de Milo had her arms!
you know…no need to state the purely obvious, Jules, when the merely obvious would do fine.
Gentlemen: Enough, please.
Just as a point of policy: If it’s not already obvious, the use of fictitious user names on the Chiffboard is perfectly OK. As is, of course, the use of one’s own name. The choice is entirely up to the user, his or her expectations of privacy, and moderator approval.
The disclosure of personal ID and information is also at each user’s discretion, and the “outing” of such information with argumentative intent may be considered a breach of Chiffboard etiquette, if not policy.
Thanks - Moderator
as I said…don’t throw a stone at me with a hood on.
That is a breech of my personal etiquette rules, if not policy.