Hiya Friends and Gremlins, welcome to my Fruit Loop Bar. No alcohol here - just fruit and vegetable juices and carbonated water. High vitamins and high fructose is good for the brain. This is the healthy high portion of the C&F Pub.
Now I read somewhere that some music Guru by the Ganga made a pronouncement that the Kalyaan and the Bhairavi Scales are the primal scales of diatonic music systems. These are the scales that comprehend the Lydian and Phrygian Modes of your western plainsong tradition. As an example, with D keynote, the Lydian progression would be
D E F# G# A B C# D+
and the Phrygian would be
D Eb F G A Bb C D+.
Then, another time I was reading Cow Pasture’s rave about the Circle of 5ths and this got me thinking …
Now I will neither blame the Guru nor Bloomfield for this outcome and I don’t know where this is going but here is an original thought and seeing as this is a pub I would be interested in any free range comments.
If you take any note as your key note and go up 7 semitones you get your perfect 5th. Now if you go up 7 semitones from that perfect 5th you will get your second perfect 5th and you keep doing this until you have covered all possible intervals in any octave. Now what you will find is that you will first get the notes of the Lydian (Kalyaan) Mode and then the notes of Phrygian (Bhairavi) Mode. And this will continue ad infinitum!
So stick that up your pipe and smoke it (outside please!)
Lets do it with D keynote again.
D up 7 semitones is A (perfect 5th)
A up 7 semitones is E " " "
E up 7 semitones is B " " "
B up 7 semitones is F# " " "
F# up 7 semitones is C# " " "
C# up 7 semitones is G# " " "
So here we have our first series of 7 notes and if we arrange them in sequence with D as the keynote we get D Lydian ( D E F# G# A B C# D+)
Let us continue …
G# up 7 semitones is Eb (perfect 5th)
Eb up 7 semitones is Bb " " "
Bb up 7 semitones is F " " "
F up 7 semitones is C " " "
C up 7 semitones is G " " "
and then, finally
G up 7 semitones is back to D " " "
The new notes in the second series added to the D keynote describe the Phrygian Mode
(D Eb F G A Bb C D+)
Interestingly, I sat in on my son’s sax lesson last evening and the new teacher gave him a chart with the circle of 5ths explained it, etc. etc.
At the end, he said, “I know you may not have gotten everything I just explained so don’t worry about it. Understanding stuff like this doesn’t always come from the same part of your brain that a lot of your music-making comes from.”
It was all I could do to stifle myself from pointing out that I had a music degree and I remember not exactly getting the point of the circle then either!
No, we didn’t study Asian modes, and I think you are rather rude. I can do the other things, though. You must be a genius and only YOU deserve to talk about music. What a lamer.
The circle is a certain type of teaching device whose graphic representation didn’t speak to me that clearly. I got Guido’s hand, etc etc.. I did study sitar though in India and learned their version of solfege.
People’s minds work differently. Try and deal with it without having to put somebody else down. You might even enjoy the diversity of the human mind.
PS. Raving about mathematical parallels in music is highly over-rated, imo. But once again, its about diversity, isn’t it? So you may mention your degree without interference from my end, even if your head is up your numbers.
Well, any chunk of the circle of 5ths that contains a given tonic is going to be some classical mode.
For example, using C:
F# B E A D G C == C Lydian
B E A D G C F == C Ionian
E A D G C F Bb == C Mixolydian
A D G C F Bb Eb == C Dorian
D G C F Bb Eb Ab == C Aeolian
G C F Bb Eb Ab C# == C Phrygian
C F Bb Eb Ab C# F# == C Locrian
Caj, your post about mode relativites, which is standard and music theory wise unremarkable, misses the salient issue here. The issue is about the starting tonic and the circle of fifths returning to it and the range of intervals thus described creating a perpetual complementarity of Lydian/Phyrygian and nothing else.
This diatonic complementarity is unique. No other modes attract a diatonic complementarity (in terms of a common keynote).
For me, the utility of this is for my vocal scale (chromatic) practice every morning. Lets say this morning I am focussing on G as my keynote. Now, singing up and down the 12 notes chromatic progression is frankly quite mechanical and boring. So I break it up into two complemetary scales and end up practicing all the notes in an interesting way. This is more so if I progress the practice with particular raag themes and phrasings in mind including “twisted” expressions of scale.
Those of you who have keyed flutes may find this a fruitful approach also.
Ditto for cello and fretless instruments in general.
Of course there are a myriad other complemetarities to cover all given notes but they aren’t diatonic. For example
the natural minor Aelioan (diatonic) is complemnented by Maarwa (not diatonic)
diatonic Dorian (the only symmetrical diatonic mode) is complemented by Pooravi (not diatonic)
diatonic Mixolydian by non diatonic Todi
diatonic Ionian has no complentarity that is classed as a modal scale in the tradition I am familiar and its notional complement isn’t diatonic either.
(someone is whispering in my ear - I think its Amar. Hey, Amar! No!
There is no such thing as diet tonic and no I don’t serve it. And, put that cigar out! Out! )
OK, OK. I am making an exception for violin and open tune guitar.
These are now allowed. I recently was very impressed by a Klezmer fidleress. As for guitars, you are must have a predominance of line work (including arpeggios) but HEY! no strumming 2 or 3 chords on and on and on and on and on and on and on.
A bodhran player will be invited into the bar for every guitar player present.
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