Yes but without the “ishes”. The Ionian is one of the major modes. It is the standard bearer of major modes if you like. The prime determinant of mode classification into major and minor streams is based on whether a harmonic chord using the tonic/keynote as the chord triad’s root, the perfect fifth interval and the third interval give rise to a major or minor chord. If the third interval in any mode is major (4 semitones from the tonic) the chord will be major and if the interval be minor (3 semitones from the tonic) the chord will be minor.
Therefore, the following modes available naturally on a standard diatonic flute are major (not majorish):-
Ionian, Mixolydian and Lydian.
and the following are minor (not minorish):-
Aeolian, Dorian, Phrygian
and the Locrian, is neither major nor minor being devilish and anti harmonic.
There are other major and minor modes, both diatonic and non diatonic, which we can discuss later. My first sequel to this post (hecklers permitting) is to talk about the heirarchy of major and minor modes. IE, Why is Ionian the “standard bearer” or the “major major” and so on?
Oh, talasiga, I’m downright fond of my ishes. Quite peckish, in fact. Especially in music that is somewhat Ir or Scott – er, I mean Ir-ish or Scott-ish. My fondest wish is my ish! Bitte meine Ishen nicht auswischen!
In my experience with people who are familiar only with the classical Major/Minor paradigm, saying that, for example, Dorian is minor, but not Minor (i.e., the Aeolian they’re familiar with, or its harmonic/melodic minor variants) can be very confusing. Hence one utility of ish. Also, as I said before, as a cover term for calling out keys in sessions. If someone says “A minor”, we’re expecting A Aeolian. But calling “A minorish” prepares us for any of the minor modes, including ambiguous gapped modes, without having to analyze the structure of the upcoming tune while simultaneously swilling our Guinness and chatting up the customers.
Of course, I omitted Lydian and Phrygian because they’re not common in ITM. And Lochrian is just evil (my brain wants to hear it as a Mixolydian inversion). The word even sounds evil. A slimy prehistoric mode from the depths of a Scottish lake.
Good question though about the primacy of Ionian. My impression from casual reading is that it’s a fairly universal scale, even in cultures and systems that may be quite far from Western music in other features and details.
Should this thread be moved to the Postmodal Pub or the ITM forum?
With Ionian… well, it’s one of the easiest keys to figure out in fifths tuning- starting from C a s a tonic, you get G and F easy, then going off from G you get DAEB, and so you’ve got all the notes, just like that. Lydian is even easier since you can just go CGDAEBF#, but the sharp 4th makes it less stable as a mode.
Locria: historical region in central Greece, north of the Gulf of Corinth, original home of the Locri (Lokroi) tribe. I guess the correct spelling really is Locrian, not Lochrian, which kinda ruins my Nessie joke. Damn.
The names all sound like something from Star Trek. “Captain, the Locrians have captured the Phrygian ambassador, and are beaming him to the Mixolydian home planet!”
And if you stop 2 steps short in the cycle, you get CGDAE = CDEGA, which is the basic major pentatonic. Interesting.
My music theory, including modes, is sort of okay, but I just can’t think fast or clearly enough for it to really help my playing. Basically I just learn tunes without analysing them too deeply.
When accompanying a vocal I might occasionally bung in a few deliberate intervals whose effect I know well, that are off the main melody to add a bit of tension or movement, but that’s just really stuff I learned in guitar chord theory when I was a kid. I can’t do anything really analysed or clever.
I’m not a good whistle player. I’m not a good mandolin player. I’m not a good musician. But I have great fun just playing along with people who are much better, and who (given a chance) would explain modes until the cows come home.
I came across modes years ago when I was getting to grips with the Mountain Dulcimer. It was a practical approach I was taking. You can’t play the dulcimer much unless you know something about modes. But what you need to know about modes is not at all how modes are used in Irish Traditional Music.
I learned a bit more about modes, but I don’t exercise the knowledge, so I keep forgetting it. As a Norner, I have a soft spot for the Dorian mode. Left to myself I’d be playing a lot of Dorian stuff. The sad thing is I don’t always recognise it, so it’s like a slap on the head when somebody says “not Dorian mode AGAIN!”.
My (possibly ignorant) impression is that Ionian, as a mode, is indestinguishable from an ordinary middle-C octave. It’s easy for the beginner to understand. That’s why it’s first in the lessons.
I’m sure this is a lot of fun for the music theorist. You can organise hierarchies in all sorts of different and interesting ways. But it reminds me of an architectural theorist called “Battey Langley” who tried to enforce a system of orders on Gothic Architecture, to match the well-established orders of classical architecture.
Let’s assume you play whistle. This is easiest because it’s strictly diatonic, and also because I play whistle. You have the following notes (on a D instrument): D E F# G A B C C# in two(ish) octaves. This allows you to play both the D major and G major scales.
Now, these scales have a mode for each note in the scale, so there’s seven modes you can play off of the D major scale, and there’s seven modes you can plan off of the G major scale. The ITM player sees, most often, Ionian (aka major scale), Dorian, Mixolydian (which is, incidentally, a major scale with a flattened seventh), and Aeolian (aka natural minor scale). Let’s take D major as an example.
The mode you play on D is your D major scale, and is also the Ionian mode.
If you play all of the notes in a D scale in order, but start on E, you play a Dorian mode. A lot of people (at my session, anyway) confuse the Dorian mode with a minor scale. That’s because it sounds minor(ish). It is not quite the same as any of the several minor scales in Western music (natural, harmonic, melodic), but it’s similar.
If you play all of the notes in a D scale in order but start on A, it’s a Mixolydian mode. You’ll notice very quickly that there’s only one note different from A Mixolydian and A major: A major has a G# where A Mixolydian as a Gn. So Mixolydian modes sound a bit like an off-kilter major scale. Unimportant Technical Stuff: Another interesting thing (harmonically) about Mixolydian is that because the seventh is flattened, the triad on the seventh scale degree is major (it’s diminished in a major scale). So tunes in Mixolydian like to start a little figure on a I triad, then move it down, note for note, to a VII triad.
And, finally, if you play all of the notes of a D scale in order, but start on B, it’s an Aeolian mode. This is the same as a natural minor scale, but be not fooled: Western art music makes very little practical use of the natural minor scale. That is, you won’t find a classical piece in “natural minor” any more than you’ll find one in “harmonic minor.” A classical piece in minor will draw from all three of the minor scales without prejudice or reserve. Anyway, as far as ITM goes, this is a minor scale.
So how can you use all of this? Well, I’ll tell you:
I’m going to assume you can figure out what key signature you’re in. I might explain that later if it’s an issue. And you can’t always trust the dots, they don’t always put the key signature for the relative major (like they should). I’ve seen Banish Misfortune, which is in D mixolydian, notated in one sharp. Meh.
Note: Tonic = the fundamental note of a key. You can think of it as the note that “resolves” the key, or the note that the tune (probably) feels like it should end on. In D major, the tonic is D. In G major it’s G. In A Mixolydian, it’s A. And so on.
If your key signature is two sharps (looks like D major), and…
…the tonic is D, you’re in D Ionian / D Major.
…the tonic is E, you’re in E Dorian.
…the tonic is A, you’re in A Mixolydian.
…the tonic is B, you’re in B Aeolian / B Natural Minor.
If you’re key signature is one sharp (looks like G major), and…
…the tonic is G, you’re in G Ionian / G Major.
…the tonic is A, you’re in A Dorian.
…the tonic is D, you’re in D Mixolydian.
…the tonic is E, you’re in E Aeolian / E Natural Minor.
So you see it’s really important to keep track of whether you’re playing in one sharp or two, because modes on E, A, or D will have different names, depending.
I guess the lesson wasn’t so quick as I’d thought…
Hi from a Newb.
Just wanted to say, I copied this and printed it out, and will go
through it later with a highlighter and pencil.
If this had been a conversation happening in realtime, I would
have been hopelessly lost in the dust, and probably would have
given up half-way through. Cool that I can take these educational
moments and, by the miracle of modern technology, can re-play
them in super…slo…mo
With due respect to Weeks and Congrats and Talasiga, not to appear dismissive, but for me, in ITM, mode names are only an intrusion. The substance of the tune trumps its modal categorisation (after all, I could name anything anything, couldn’t I). I just play or accompany the damn thing, and I do just fine, really. Really.
Don’t get me wrong. I’m not an obscurantist, but the only mode I conveniently recognise is Mixolydian. Otherwise, it’s just some form of major or minor. No problem at all. The rest is details, and those details change and defy categorisation enough mid-tune to give me a headache were I to chain myself to some modal set of mind. That’s just me, though. I think it’s nice if some wants to, and can, focus on modes and whether a minor key is harmonic, true, or floccinaucinhilipillificational.
Recognising a category doesn’t help me as an ITM player. My ears do. Recognising modes might a diversion when I have nothing much else to do. I’ll tell you this, though: whenever I bring up mode names with my fellow ITM musicians - and I’m thinking of the expert ones, here - they look at me as if I’m an ass.
I’m not against modal categorisation. I’m against overrating its importance. Play, or theorise.
This is actually kind of an interesting subject. What I don’t get however (not having ever studied music theory) is what practical use is it? How can I use this when I’m playing ITM or, for that matter other stuff on the whistle?
For me it’s limited at best. Here’s an example: just came back from working with a couple of guys. One of the things we’re doing is inserting a reel into a particular song and using it to conclude, too. It is, modally speaking, D Dorian in our version. That said, I obdurately say “D minor”. That’s all I need when playing backup. Anyway, the final note of the piece’s conclusion, instead of landing with the predictable D-based chord, is instead informed by a chord whose tonic is the tune scale’s flattened sixth (Bb in this case). This is utterly outside the Dorian mode. It has nothing to do with it. Yet the device, a surprise, works quite well to a Western ear in context to the tune as a whole. Were I to be chained to a modal paradigm, I might not allow myself the freedom to do such a thing, and that self-limitation would be a mistake.
My approach is solely practical and tune-based in achieving an end product. The way of the tune itself, free of category, tells me what I can do with it, and taste tells me what I ought not to.
Now it may be that the modal paradigm is in reality capable of allowing strange accidentals, but I’m already there without it, so…
(Well Darwin seemed to appreciate my angle anyway.)
I think if you’re a player who
*doesn’t compose (formally or impromptu improvisation) OR
*follows the dots pretty much in a tradition with a relatively set key signature/s for its music OR
*play with others only that which you have already rehearsed OR
*plays in only one, two or a few traditions which share 3 to 4 melody types for its repertoire of music
then this sort of stuff may not be useful for you. Just follow the dots.
However, if you are like me, and you
like to compose and improvise and elaborate
are not into following the dots but play a lot by ear and are willing to transpose pieces into different keys
are excited by the fresh challenge of playing with others things that you may have not heard before
play in more than one tradition and the music repertoire comprehends over 12 melody types including non-diatonic types
then,
this sort of stuff MAY be useful for you.
Others will identify other reasons why this sort of stuff is useful.
I must thank Weekender for his comment in the first page.
Even for ITM (noting that this isn’t an ITM forum and my topic here didn’t intend ITM specificity), it can help to have a cupboard in your brain with different drawers for the songs. Like having a E Dorian Drawer for all those pieces you play with homenote XXX XXO and an E Aeolian Drawer for pieces with the same homenote but which crossfinger for the 6th interval. You could have a E Devious Drawer for all those songs that are basically Dorian but have some accidentals in them (like the occasional D#).
Of course you could have a different cupboard arrangement. Your drawers could be according to metre and tempo types. Whatever suits you. (And of course you could cross dress also, I mean cross drawers)
The thing is organising repertoires into systems makes for efficiency in recalling and auto functions in performing. The auto function liberates your application of spontaneity and verve and heart. When you think less about what you are playing you can bring more feeling interpretation.
Cool that I can take these educational
