I play guitar and bodhran… so do I cancel myself out? 
So, where can a feller get a good stiff drink of rot gut ‘round these here parts… and I aint talkin’ no sissy drinks niether?
Only if you can do the two at the one time. 
The only so called non sissy drink you’ll get here is ni-Vanuatu kava. Then we’ll see if yer a fella or not …
Well gimmee one o’them thar Ni-Vanny Kavers barkeep… and make it double quick. I gots me a powerful thirst. 
You silly Kavalangi! Nobody requests kava like that! Don’t you have any respect for custom?
Any way I don’t serve it. You will have to wait until Sitiveni returns (all six foot six of him). In the meantime, you might start practising for the kava ceremony by sitting cross legged there in that corner and practise clapping three times. Also, the kava sessions are long and so you better have some non aggressive topic to talk about. (How about the cycle of 5ths and vicarious applications of the concept?) …
Sure, I respects a good custom job, anything to make a iron horsie look bad-ass.
What, no barstool? What kinda waterin’ hole is this? I likes cycles tho, 'specially Harleys. I’m gonna gets me one o’them shiny things this summer. Uh, what’s a ‘application’?
Actually, you might be able to get away with that. Maybe guitar and whistle at same. Or better yet, play whistle and sing at same time.
My latest stuff messing with Native American Flutes, making lots of sawdust everywhere. I’ll have to do an Ahava Rabba mode NA Flute sometime.
It’s interesting when I’m talking to people about music and I get into modes and they immediately start on the greek modes and they are suprised to learn that there are others. Some of the folks are those with music degrees, not having one (music degree) myself I just assumed someone would talk about other modes in 4 years. But music is a big field and some things get left out.
Maybe, after a couple of drinks like the one’s that Joseph’s waiting for…
Years ago, I was found of studying old books of philosophy, music theory, and other dry stuff. Back then, I understood the circle of 5ths “perfectly”. Now, having an excellent visual memory, I can open the pages in my mind and see the circular diagrams, but, unfortunately, the print material on the rest of the page is missing, which is somewhat like having a new car with no wheels. I can open the door and sit in the drivers seat, but I can’t drive anywhere. Likewise, I can listen to and enjoy music, but I haven’t a clue as to the key or mode that I am listening to. I ask you, am I better off now or before with regard to my listening enjoyment?
Oh bartender, I would prefer a cold beer, if you would be so kind. Yes, I know that it is a little strange, but I would like my beer in a tall glass with ice cubes. None of that luke warm beer for me, please.
That would be the one fried in ghee and spiced with curry?
Hold on there bucko! I was reaching Comic Consciousness. Far more preferable as far as I am concerned.
Ummm. Doug…
I don’t think he has beer. But I heard he serves the 50% port 50% soymilk drinks you savor.
It depends on the focus of your listening enjoyment Doug.
I have been listening to ITM for nearly thirty years now and being moved emotionally especially by the slow airs and songs. Now, since about 2001, because I want to play some of this, identifying the keynote and the mode of a piece tells me what notes I will use and hearing phrases and ornaments in a way that will enable me to play it brings a new level of listening enjoyment.
I am also composing a lot these days and naturally this informs my listening.
For myself, I dont find that left brain and right brain activities are at odds or work detrimentally. I have never found intellectual apprehension to decrease my emotional sensibilty. But then, I am a very emotional person.
The sound of a curlew calling can make me cry. This is true. The fact that I (through intellectual process) know that its a curlew does not decrease the entrancement.
Its just how I am. You may be different. Therefore, ultimately, I cannot answer your question for you Doug. It depends on what you are. See?
Its not about being better.
All of this not knowing The Circle of Fifths. Surely it was made famous by that great Italian girl Ella Strad, inventor of the most popular piano accordion bass system. With the added question, is anything popular about the piano accordion?
I really don’t quite understand why there is all this hullaballoo about making gismos and long drawn out discussions in certain topics at this site for to figure out circle of 5th. Now just go to my first sober post here in this topic which happens to be the first post in this topic. Here is an excerpt from that sober post:-
Thats really all you need, isn’t it? I mean lets name the notes as they are called in current western music convention.
There is A Bb B C Db D Eb E F Gb G Ab A ad inf.
or it’s A A# B C C# D D# E F F# G G# A ad inf.
So if you take any note as your tonic and count 7 steps or semitones UP from any it you will get its perfect fifth. So, you can see the fifth for A is E and the fifth for E is B? etc etc
Its probably just a tad above kindergarten arithmetic.
(Unless you want to bring in the stuff about just versus equal tempered intonation.
That, however is unlikely, given that we’re all on the KEYboard here. hehhehe)
Now if anyone here cannot work out, on the basis of the naked facts of this post, or from their own general knowledge, (and, without wikipediating or otherwise conferring), what the fifth for G# is, I respectfully request that they leave this corner of the pub!
I respectfully request that they leave this corner of the pub!
Will do. I think I’ll go play some music…
Hmmm… (ohoh… better not tell him about my new little creation … no… nope… won’t admit to it at all…) I guess I’m off to the next pub then… 
Wow, you’re right talisiga, if all I wanted to do with the circle of fifths
was find the fifth of something, that would be easy. But, the circle is
a very useful graphical representation, like the Periodic Table, with
many other handy functions.
Sorry, but no.
First the size of a whole tone must be deduced.
Second, shall we take these wholetones from an octave? Twelfth? Fourth?
Third, HOW MANY ‘whole tones’ shall we divide the octave, or twelfth into?
THEN divide that in 2…
see where Im getting, one has to have a standard tone in place in your method…
(the ancient Greeks talked ad infinitum about this…sitting there with a monochord and abacus…in fact, we have more discussion about ancient Greek music than we do actual ancient Greek music…)
The way to get your circle of fifths is through the overtone series:
fundamental: C
1st overtone: c
2nd overtone: g
take this g as the next fundamental, then you get;
fd: g
1st: g’
2nd: d’
take this d’ as your next fundamental, then you get a as the 2nd overtone,
etc, c,g,d,a,e,b,F#,c#,g#,d#,a#,f, c
doubling the frequency/string length to keep the sucessive fifths in a reasonable octave.
String players tune by harmonics all the time. Try playing up 7 semitones on the violin to get the next string’ s note. it dosent work.
And to avoid the diatonic comma, keeping the b-c interval suitably small, one can go to the 5th overtone and use it as a fundamental:
C-c-g-c’-e’
you’ll get a b" from that e’
There’s a wonderful book by Paul Huindemith detailing the derivation of diatonic notes from the overtone series; ‘Fundamentals in Musical composition’ published by Schott, I’ll look it up for you.
One way of appreciating music is to apprehend the beauty of the mathematics. Patterns are everywhere you look. The Lydian/Phrygian/Lydian pattern is something I hadn’t noticed before, and it’s very cool.
(Just coming back indoors after a post-breakfast cigar with my third cup of good strong dark coffee. Yum.)