Hey all. I’ve been playing away on my new Cochran recently purchased from another forum member. It’s beautifully made, and the delrin is perfect for the high, dry desert. I’m a beginner, and initially thought that my embouchure would be the main obstacle. Truth is, I’m actually making pretty consistent flute sounds, generally speaking.
My main issue seems to be the fingering of the right hand. The ring finger is just a divil of a reach, and I’m terribly inaccurate with it, although my fingers are not short and stubby.
But after considering the problem, I’m thinking that the real culprit might be my middle finger, both of which are tooo long it seems. It’s not an issue on the left hand, but the right makes a large arc in trying to note with the pad, and this is messing up the ring finger reach. I’ve seen folks on youtube using what looks like the middle pad of the middle finger. I’m just not sure if this is kosher. Plus, if I straighten out the right middle finger, the crease hits the hole and doesn’t seal well.
Do a search for Pipers Grip. Its what you are trying to describe. You don’t use the tips of your fingers but the flats while keeping your fingers straight. Try raising your right elbow so your arm is near parallel to the floor.
It will help when using this grip
i’m pretty certain that a dedicated flute player would schedule an appointment with an orthopedist. there are surgeries to extend the pinkie and shorten the middle finger. sometimes they use the excess from the middle finger for the pinkie. if you’re going to be any kind of musician, you must take your craft seriously or not at all.
You know, the first two or three days, I was ready to bag it. Hands and arms hurt so much I could only play five minutes at a time. I’ve learned a few things in life, but it didn’t look like flute was going to be one of them.
But today (day 4), I know I can play this thang. My diaphragm has kicked in, and I may once again have abs.
Hi,
Well, you have to give your hands time to adjust to being stretched and such. Stretching exersises of the hand and arm may help. Try not to strain your hands to much. The hands and arms should be relaxed. You might want to review techniques of how to properly hold the flute. There has been threads on this. The bottom line is to take it slow, it is a long road, so don’t get discouraged. Just take it slow and get it the basics right.
Good luck!
Hi Jon,
Man, I really do like your flute. And I love the sound coming out of it, feeble though it may be. This evening I figured out that learning to relax was priority number one, while trying to stay as upright as possible.
And just since I started this thread, I picked it up and played a while. Afterwards I realized that I was playing with the right finger pads and not even thinking about it. Major progress.
So I guess I didn"t need to start this thread after all.
Wouldn’t you know it, but each hand has its own technique.
For the right hand, let me refer to classical training. First off, totally flatten your right hand, as this will allow your RH fingers to comfortably span the distances between the holes. Your fingers should always be curved, unless you follow the advice of the many “pipers grip” advocates here, but for now let your fingers be curved. The more difficult thing to describe is the correct position of your RH thumb, which needs to be turned sideways to the flat of your hand, and with the tip of the thumb, which helps hold the flute, placed somewhere between the first and second fingers, maybe closer to the first, but between them.
Your RH wrist should be fairly straight, and your elbow low, in line with your wrist.
The left hand is another matter.
The pipers grip has the fingers much straighter, and covers the holes with another technique. It works well with whistles and chanters, which are held more or less straight out from the player, and can be used with simple system transverse flutes, but there I find the wrist angles, especially the LH wrist, to be uncomfortable when keeping the fingers straight, and, so, for transverse flutes I recommend the classical technique. However, YMMV.
I’ll be glad to say more, but that should get you in the right direction.
…the correct position of your RH thumb, which needs to be turned sideways to the flat of your hand,
When I started to relax, (playing in the mirror helped) I began to do this instinctively. I’m glad to know it’s correct form.
…and your elbow low, in line with your wrist.
From fiddling, I felt like the right elbow should be low and easy, and that also helped me to relax. And darned if the right fingers didn’t begin to fall into place. Again, the mirror helped to maintain that posture. Continually reminding my face to relax is the key, I think.
Cork said, regarding a mouthful of advice on how to hold the flute properly:
I’ll be glad to say more…
Please, don’t.
Exactly how long did you say you have been playing the timber flute? If I recall an earlier post correctly, not long enough to be dishing out advice regarding hand position with such certainty. You don’t know enough to present yourself as an expert.
For example, your bold assertion regarding articulation is plain silly :
Tonguing, after all, is a highly skilled, and hard earned, discipline which, in terms of articulation, appears to be an ultimate flute articulation form.
Tonguing might reflect skill and be a hard earned discipline, but in ITM at any rate, it is hardly “an ultimate flute articulation form.”
If you can get to a teacher of Irish flute, or even
somebody who teaches silver flute, for a lesson
simply about holding and blowing, it may save
you some grief.
There are workshops at various places that are
a good resource, if you are willing to travel. I’ve
sometimes travelled hours to see a teacher.
Grey Larsen’s Guide to Irish Flute and Tin Whistles
is a very helpful resource, IMO, especially about
holding flutes and whistles. Not necessarily
a Bible that you must follow, but a good place
to start. Covers various grips.
It’s possible to play classical style left hand
and piper’s rt, by the way. Or vice versa.
IMO, and Grey’s, classical grip is best.
But the best advice has already been given–take
your time. Many of us thought our hands
wouldn’t do it (just my own crazy anatomy).
Patience.
I’ve been looking but haven’t found a teacher for Irish flute in Reno. There’s not much of an ITM scene here. Even on St. Paddy’s, ITM is impossible to find. (Actually, there’s not much of a local music scene, period.) The Bay area would probably be the best bet, but it’s four hours away.
Maybe a few lessons with a classic player wouldn’t be such a bad idea.
Funny, I never found tounging to be that big a deal to get the hang of. And it is true that it’s not the biggest tool in the box for ITM. I think embouchure technique, relaxation, and good (as much is possible within the confines of the flute) body mechanics are key. If it makes you feel any better, I’ve been playing the flute for 9 years (with a couple breaks) and it’s only been in the last six months or so that I’ve fully adapted and can put in hours without getting achy and pained or losing wind/embouchure control. It’s a long road. Relaxation is the biggest aid…hand positions, embouchure, fingering, breath control etc. are all easier to obtain and maintain with nice relaxed back, shoulders, arms, hands etc. and the most comfortable, biomechanically advantageous positioning for your own body. Seek out good experienced players and if you take lessons with a classical teacher, keep this in mind: classical teaching can sometimes be very dogmatic about what the “right” way is. It’s also geared towards a different style of music. So take from it what is good (and there are things to be learned from classical players) but remember that YMMV, it has to work for you personally, and that some elements may be modified to suit what you’re trying to do…yikes I’m making it sound like it takes forever to be able to play satisfyingly. That won’t take long…as long as you enjoy the trip, what’s a little travel time?
If it makes you feel any better, I’ve been playing the flute for 9 years…and it’s only been in the last six months or so that I’ve fully adapted and can put in hours without getting achy and pained…
That does make me feel better. Misery loves company, you know.
I’ve driven four hours for a lesson.
You know personally I don’t think one needs lots of
lessons. Just something to get set up right, then
off to the woodshed for a good while.
Then maybe another lesson… Or a workshop
somewhere…
Just thought to chime in. I play that way with straight bottom hand and also wind up with the crease over the hole sometimes. But using the thumb position explained in this thread, that moves the finger forward so the hole is covered by the 2nd pad.
Also, in the winter or in cold air conditioning, to prevent that position from slipping, I use hand cream which gives a better seal. I used to also use something called “Gorilla Snot” (!) which is for musicians needing a tacky surface on wood. Drumsticks and cello bows I think. Works good. It should come up if you google it.
Also you could google for photos of Matt Molloy playing flute. There are some detailed shots I’ve seen of his hand position. He has that finger bent to cover with the first pad.
Roj, take a look at my post “It’s Cool, It’s Free, It May Be Just What You Need.” You’ll see some free videos that will provide some insight on how to hold the damn thing. My guess is that you are fighting yourself due to inexperience. In other words, you’re making it harder than it really is. When you can trust yourself to properly cover the holes, you will find that your hands will relax and it won’t be a challenge anymore.
Many flute players seem to think their hands are a special case (especially those who think their hands are too small), when in reality, there are very few adults who should have any trouble playing a simple-system flute once they get the hang of it.
Don’t worry, you’ll get there.
And if not, perhaps a contingent of us can go over to Mr. Cochran’s and sort him out. Seems a crusty ol’ bugger after all, in’t he.
