This is one of those frustrated posts;
where you have nobody relevant at hand to talk out your frustration to, and so the chiffboard is the only place I can rant away and have the tiniest sense of being heard and, eventually, understood. sigh
WHY is the flute still hard to hold properly after almost 3 years?
WHY do I cramp up the fingers still, so that I cant let them fly ever so lightly over the holes and create music of oh such beauty and grace? (I saw that 70’s YouTube clip of Molloy playing Bucks of Oranmore and man, he seemed to just fold his hands around something that just floated in front of him. A flute; mind you..)
WHY am I still struggling with the tone and tuning of the Cnat and C#?
(I got myself an Olwell blackwood fluate 10 months ago, it’s probably nothing wrong with the flute. Darn)
WHY is the flute still hard to hold properly after almost 3 years? <<
Poor posture and hand position. But without seeing you, it’s hard to say. I’d bet it’s the location of the thumbs, which all problems begin typically.
WHY do I cramp up the fingers still, so that I cant let them fly ever so lightly over the holes and create music of oh such beauty and grace? <<
Simple: you’re probably squeezing too hard on the flute. That comes from poor hand positions and balance points. (you mention the Molloy video…did you notice his RH pinkey stays on the flute even when he’s rolling a low E ?? That should say a lot)
WHY am I still struggling with the tone and tuning of the Cnat and C#? <<
Chances are pretty good you’re using a bad fingering for the Cnat. (I presume you mean middle Cnat, not the very low one). Different flutes are better with a certain Cnat fingering than another. Most Olwells do well with OXOXXX (my preferred one).
I have a Wilkes that prefers OXXOOO or OXXXOO
The other fingering being too sharp and too close to C# to be accurate.
Hope these ideas help.
They may not be exact solutions to your precise issues, but I trust they get you thinking in the right direction.
dave m
(I got myself an Olwell blackwood fluate 10 months ago, it’s probably nothing wrong with the flute. Darn)
So here’s a related question, how do folks manage to use different fingerings for Cnat on different flutes? I have trouble switching between the different ones, muscle memory takes over and I end up using the fingering I’ve used the most over the past few months.
My Olwell seem to prefer this (middle) Cnat:
oxx xox
But I am willing to test your suggestions through an afternoon or so,
perhaps I need to push it more air-wise..? I’d rather push a Cnat into behaving properly than having to fall back to tune it down - if you see what I mean? It leaves that awful, weak “toot” of a Cnat…arrgh
It also seems this is better for the C#:
ooo oxo
What is your experience in this department, David?
Regarding the holding/posture thing, I never had a tutor since those few first days at Clancy week, so I may very well have picked up a thing or two; badhabitwise
Hi
To add to the good advice given already, something else you can try with those ‘difficult’ notes is to sing them. Sing the c nat, a long oooooo (or eeee or whatever you prefer) then play it, a long tone. Work on those notes for a little bit like this (playing long tones) then put them into a tune and see if it helps.
cheers
Trish
I think the answers to all of this come down to time and familiarity.
On your difficulties in holding / balancing / controlling the flute, have you had another flutist watch you and check your position and posture? Sometimes that can be a world of help.
Great thread. I’ve been quietly wresting with similar issues. I have NO problems on my Sweetheart F, VERY FEW problems on my Tipple D, but some light hand-cramping on my Seery D, (which is supposed to be my main instrument).
I’ve found that playing very often, but for small time intervals (like 10 minutes), is helping me build the strength and flexibility I need. Also I try to stretch and relax the arm, neck, back and hand muscles before I play.
I’ve only been at it a few months, but I’m seeing a lot of improvement. But I have to say, the embouchure was much less a challenge for me than left hand fatigue!
Hey Dave,
that Cnat fingering could be a good idea!
It also required me to slightly change my embouchure, so I may just hit two flies in one smack
I’ll work on it for a while and see how it turns out.
beowulf asks about using different fingings…and how.
well…Mr. Nicholson actually used about 11 different fingerings for C-natural, all designed not for tone clarity as much as for dexterity and convenience.
For instance, some have difficulties with C-# coming from a D very quickly (dependent on the fingering). W/ an 8key flute, you can finger middle D as such (oxx xxx) and instead of going to your C# (lifting two fingers quickly) you can use your RH pinkey to depress the first foot plug (C#)
Same effect and so much easier and speedier.
So it’s a matter of knowing and practicing the various fingerings and trying them in convenient places dictated by the musical pattern at hand.
No one said flute playing was easy! Otherwise everybody would do it!
hey folks,
sorry to drag this one out of the grave but…:
I) @David: The oxo xxx Cnat works fine. I stopped playing the flute for a year or so, but have started to pull it out again every now and then.
The lips still need to get used to that particular fingering, though. Meaning: When starting to play, I have to find the embouchure that gets the Cnat right…beause that one seems to be good for most other notes. So when I hit the Cnat, I know I’m onto something…
II)
Still cramping up, though. But I’m experimenting with thumb positions, and every now and then I find a good one.
When I do, it mostly feels like I’m accidentally gonna drop the flute. But the hands feel loose, and the thumb does not strain.
However, finding that same posture/hold, and combining it with point II) above, seems tricky…
Isn’t it super C natural anyway? Mike Rafferty plays a note somewhere between Cnat and C#. The students at Irish Arts Week a few years ago couldn’t figure which note he was playing. So there ya go.
@Anvil:
Actually, I attended a workshop with JL Veillon once, but we were too many there to get much private attention.
At least us blokes, anyway He said my holding and posture was fine; but I guess it’s a matter of pretty fine tuning before I make the LH strain go away.
(Disclaimer: the following does not represent certain “traditional” ITM flute playing techniques, but they otherwise darn sure work!)
Thumb position_s_, as in plural? Well, it’s possible to completely eliminate one of those thumb positions immediately. Simply, the upper hand thumb is not used to hold the flute, at all, not on any transverse flute. One problem solved!
About the lower hand thumb, some players keep their thumb out at the side of their hand, and some keep their thumb out so far to the side of their hand that they then use their pinky to help hold the flute. If that’s what you’re doing, then try this. Tuck your thumb under the palm of your hand, so that the tip of your thumb is roughly between the first and second fingers, and I say roughly because the exact position is one you will need to find for yourself. Yes, it’s an awkward position for the thumb to be in, and it may take some getting used to, but that’s what works (further explanation on request).
Beyond that, a flute simply doesn’t weigh all that much, so it really doesn’t take all that much strength to hold it, and, it really doesn’t take all that much strength to seal the tone holes, either. So, what you’re after is to use the least amount of strength necessary to hold and to finger the flute.
I’m talking about the upper hand thumb.
And as I already indicated, it is getting that one out of the way,
while maintaining balance of the flute, that’s the issue.
It feels good to have it there, but eventually; it cramps up.
Bad habits can be really difficult to leave behind.
That’s what I’m working on, and that’s where I am occasionally getting somewhere.
And yes, what you say makes perfectly sense!
E.
