New Here... Questions about Holding the Flute (Long...)

Irish Flute
1

Hi all!

First of all it’s just nice to see a flute forum with lots of activity!

I just picked up a rental flute about a month ago. It’s an Armstrong Model LFL100 - was brand new. I can’t really find any online resources on it, but for now it’s fine, when I get better I can figure out if I want to keep it, or give it back and get something else (Yamahas seem to be highly recommended about everywhere). Maybe something with open holes as I’m interested in bending notes eventually. You know, I kind of wonder how these places make money, because here I have a brand new flute for $18 and I can return it any time. It’s $25 a month (after the 1st 3 months which are covered by the $18 ). I can buy it in the first year at a 30% discount of what’s left after adding up the payments I’ve made. Otherwise it’s like 3 years of payments, which does add up, but, well the “you can give it back any time” thing had me skeptical. We’ll see =)

Anyway, my main question:

I’m having some issues holding the flute. It seems if I hold it how I’m suggested to by many sites and the book I got, it wants to “roll” away. I find myself using the fingers that should be only pushing the keys (when necessary) used to secure the flute, and that really can’t be good. In particular, my left thumb. If I go to play a “C”, which involves just 2 keys being down (neither of which is the left thumb key), I have to really be careful, it wants to roll out and I have trouble keeping the embrochure right. Other notes that have several keys held down are much easier, but I just feel I may be doing something wrong.

So really my question is, how do you hold the flute so that it’s secure and relaxed enough to play, even for those tougher notes without much contact? Is it something that just develops? One site I visited said the pressure between your right thumb, left index finger first joint, and mouth, should be enough to balance the flute. Is this true? Or do you have to contantly take advantage of the extra support from whatever keys you need to hold down?

My book (Essential Elements 2000) says two things in particular that don’t make sense:

  1. (Left hand) “Keep your wrist straight”. Is this even physically possible? Even the diagrams on that same page show the guy’s wrist bent back! A straight wrist is what you get when you’re pointing at something (thar she blows!). But if you translate that position to the flute, it just doesn’t seem to work, unless I’m wrong about the left hand support.

  2. Rest your left thumb on the underside’s long straight key… Well that’s fine for “F” which is on the DVD, but they never really explain what to do with your thumb for C.

Wow, you read all that. Thanks! :wink: If you have any suggestions I’d love to hear them.

Yours,

2

Oops, just realized this is an Irish flute oriented forum. Well this is a boehm style flute but maybe someone can give me a few pointers anyway :slight_smile:

3

Hi Phoenix,
We had a thread here called something like “Where do I put my ****thumb?” which tackled some of these problems, probably about 4 pages ago now.

Here are my experiences, not that I am in any way any kind of expert!! but I have had the same questions,
I had problems with this - having short fingers I kept needing to use my left thumb for leverage to in order for LH fingers 1 and 3 to get to their holes, and that thumb hurt quickly. If i left the thumb hanging free I’d drop the flute out of position.
My teacher helped with this (as did getting a flute with closer spacing!) by showing me various grips. I’m not sure I’d have got it without a teacher. I spent a lot of time just playing around with balancing it without playing anything (really - 10 mins at a time - looked ridiculous) like I did with my guitar (see www.guitarprinciples.com for excellent advice on practicing any instrument) - if the thing’s moving about every time you change fingering, you’re fighting a losing battle. The balance thing was really subtle, very small position changes meant the difference between success and disaster. My dream goal is a state where the presence of the flute is no longer consciously felt - there is just a volition, a tune in your head, and then out it comes as sound. One day!! Now I shift between grips , sharing the effort between L thumb, R thumb , LH1 knuckle and R pinky when anything starts to hurt. Magically I can play for longer & longer before this is necessary. At first I had to stop after 2 mins, now I can play continuously for 20 or so without having to rest my hands, and I expect this to improve. This seems to have happened naturally. You have the added fun of needing to use the thumb for playing - I can’t comment on that.

What else helped for me - ah yes - allowing myself to play really slowly, embarrassingly slowly, more slowly than my teacher thinks of as slow (see www.guitarprinciples.com again! ) Now THAT REALLY HELPED - it gives you time to get all the 3000 or so muscles involved in any one action to sort out their act together!

Just my 2 cents worth…

4

Several years ago I developed a form of arthritis in my hands, and I had to learn a different way to hold the flute. The arthritis is now in remission, but this grip works well for me so I still use it. I describe it on my site, along with photos of both Boehm-system and Irish flutes being held this way:

http://www.flutesite.com/posture_&_grip.htm

I hope it helps.

Note: this is only one possible way to grip a flute. It may not be the answer for everybody, but it was the answer which has worked best for me.

–James

Disclaimer: this post is not intended for, nor to catch the attention of, the Irish Illuminati Protectorate. If it should so happen that this post does catch the attention of the IIP and they happen to post a response, I disavow all responsibility for whatever they may post.

5

It’s quite helpful to see a teacher initially–can save
you much grief later. You don’t have to grimly
take lesson after lesson, but just get started.

6

That’s a given, but some people just don’t have teachers to see. It’s not that they think they don’t need them. Particularly with Irish flute, they just can’t find one. And sometimes, they just love music, but can’t afford one.

I don’t ask questions here because I don’t want to feel that I’m bothering everyone, and that’s what I feel when I hear “go find a teacher.” And yes, I did try to find one.

I managed to figure out how to hold my flute from helpful websites and suggestions on this list. It seems to have worked, because I haven’t dropped it and I’m not crippled, either.

James’ website is exactly what one needs. Thank goodness he was kind enough to share it.

To add to the suggestions, Grey Larsen’s book, The Essential Guide to Irish Flute and Tin Whistle, has step-by-step instructions for holding your flute using the 3-point method. It walks you through the process in great detail. If you follow it, you’ll end up holding your flute correctly. It seems bizarre at first, but over a period of a few weeks, you’ll find that it works very well and is quite comfortable. You’ll end up holding it much as James does.

Good luck to you! I hope you find this list helpful enough that you’ll want to stay!

7

Wow, thanks all!

I’m going to try the Rockstro grip, if that doesn’t work I’m going to try the kung-fu grip :smiley:. James, those pictures were really helpful! It was also helpful to hear about not holding a flute but rather balancing it. That also implies that it’ll take some time to get it right, but I’m ok with that.

As for having someone show/teach me… I totally agree, that would be a quick and great way, unfortunately the only real time I have for it is late at night, so that’s out of the question at least for the time being. I have a friend who played in High School and I may get some pointers from her next time I see her. Good thing about a flute is you can take it anywhere.

I found that thread here: http://chiffboard.mati.ca/viewtopic.php?t=22569 if anyone that stumbles onto this thread in the future is interested.

My dream goal is a state where the presence of the flute is no longer consciously felt - there is just a volition, a tune in your head, and then out it comes as sound. One day!!

Same here. I’ve dabbled with guitar but not nearly well enough to even be in sight of that goal. Really the only analogue I have with that in my life is with typing (best class I ever took!). Now I don’t think about the muscle movements, I just worry about the creative parts and it just happens. That’s what I want to achieve with the flute, so that it becomes an extension of me, so to speak :slight_smile:

What else helped for me - ah yes - allowing myself to play really slowly, embarrassingly slowly, more slowly than my teacher thinks of as slow

I have this Essential Elements CD, and it came with this software with which you can slow down the audio while keeping the same pitch. It’s great, except for the guy’s voice when he’s telling you what to do, and counting, because he sounds so CONDESCENDING! Haha! Really though I don’t mind but every time I hear it I nearly laugh :slight_smile:

Good luck to you! I hope you find this list helpful enough that you’ll want to stay!

Definitely. It seems like there are more parallels between an Irish flute and a Boehm style one than I thought, plus it seems like quite a few of the posters so far play/played one like mine, so if you guys don’t mind an occasional question about it (I’ll try to filter out most of the silly ones! :wink:) then I’d like to stick around.

Thanks again for the replies. Going to practice now, cover your ears! :smiley:

8

You aren’t bothering anybody by asking questions; not
me, certainly! The advice is standard to newbies.
It’s well meant good advice that people new
to flute don’t always think of themselves.
Nobody is commanding anybody:
Go find a teacher!

As to availability, yes that can be a problem, but not so
much with Phoenix’s flute, as you note. It’s worth making the
arrangement for a single lesson. I myself drive
six hours sometimes to get a lesson. As to expense,
I’ve found flute lessons, which I get maybe once
every six months or longer, quite cheap.

I’ve learned as much from the internet about holding
flutes as I have from teachers, especially from
James’ site, in fact. Also from asking questions
on the board. Also from books.

However after one year of playing Irish flute
I finally went to a teacher, one of the best, who told me
that my right hand position was wrong. It took
maybe three months to relearn it, which I did,
much to my benefit. Something similar happened
nine months later, another three months changing.
It was, both times, a drag.

So, given my experience, I encourage
people to see teachers and/or go to
workshops. It isn’t essential and it can save you
considerable time and trouble.

9

This](http://www.flutelab.com/ergonomy.htm%22%3EThis) link was posted to the forum Glauber a while ago, the site gives a fairly comprehensive overview of flute ergonomics, position etc.