What the blazes do I do with my thumb?

Irish Flute
1

Hi!

I’m a recent whistle turn flute player. I have a nice A bamboo flute I got from woodsong, and at times I get a sweet vibrant tone. My embrouchure needs work. However, the thing that’s vexing me is the thumb on my left hand. It (aside from the muscles in my cheeks) is the only thing that hurts like bill-o after practicing. I usually just cock it under the flute. I’ve tried different variations, but nothing seems to work.

Where do all of you put your thumb while the fingers play?

Sincerely,
Fibulo

2

I’ve only experienced pain in my left thumb when experimenting with piper’s grip, is that what you’re doing? I’m a beginner myself, others will be able to give you better explanations of how to hold the flute so I’ll defer to them.

3

I use both my thumbs to balance the flute when playing, with left thumb doing most of the balancing and the right thumb pushing the flute into my lip.

Hopefully the more knowing will come forward and help you.

MarkB

4

My left thumb is under the flute,just about opposite the space between the top two finger holes.Not pressing very hard.When I first started learning the uilleann pipes,my right thumb hurt a lot.I just had to relax and not grip so hard.

You could try this ecsercise thingy: try playing with that thumb completely relaxed,not touching the flute at all.Then just put it on the flute wherever it feels most natural,not pressing too hard.

I’m not sure I got that exactly right,but try it anyway.I think might be more to it,maybe someone else will fill it in.
Good luck!
-Kelly

5

I have less thumb-fatigue if I line it up under T2. However, it seems to creep up under T1 in a cramped postion. If I were brave I would put a little bar on the flute to keep my thumb in the more comfortable position (an idea stolen from my kindergartener’s precorder), but I’m scared about defacing my flute.

6

I also suffer from left thumb fatigue and I’m soldiering on remembering that playing guitar used to torture my left hand but finally the musculature needed developed in that hand all of its own accord and now I can startle rookie guitar players with my vice-like left hand grip on those barre chords. Too bad the phloot seems to use a different set of hand muscles entirely :roll: Might get a coupla lessons anyway just to check I’m not doing something wrong with the hand. The pain is all in the adductor pollicis! But knowing that doesn’t seem to help! Anyone have inspirational story of once-feeble girly-thumb muscle beefed to elephantine strength through stoical practice? :thumbsup:

Julia C

7

:smiley:

8

Those hands really look relaxed!

sigh.



Mary

9

Well Jon that may be inspirational but it’s hard to imagine that personage having EVER had the numb thumb/ screaming thumb syndrome that ends all my lyrical flights of ornamentation and melodic cascades of 16th notes with total seizure of the offended digit, followed by stomping round the room shaking a gallon of lactic acid out of it and back up the old arm . It’s getting better tho…I can now get through 3 verses of Raglan Road before the rot sets in. Will I be free of it one day? Mary, tell me the tale of your thumb…

10

Julia, the picture was not intended to “rub lactic acid in the wound”… :blush: It was just showing the “best case sinerio” of the right positioning of the thumbs. I can relate to your numb thumb problem, as I have a condition that effects my digits. If you find a cure let me know!
His hands do look relaxed, though… :roll:
Jon

11

Sad to say, my left thumb is now about paralyzed! It has a very limited range of motion, and it hurts wickedly after I play for awhile. Incidentally, I have developed all sorts of strange aches and pains, due mostly to flute playing, I’m sure. I really wish I had started this whole thing about 20 years ago!


Thank God, it isn’t affecting my work, because if it did, I’d have to give up flute, and probably whistle, too, since that makes it hurt as well. As it is, I rely on the Celebrex samples that we get at our office ~ and they don’t even help a whole lot. :slight_smile:

Mary

12

Relax. Do Yoga every day. Swing your arms to get blood flowing to the fingers. Drink some whiskey. Drop your shoulders when you play. Play more slowly. Relax. Lift weights to get stronger. Play for yourself, uncritically, slowly, beautifully, as if nobody is listening. Learn to play in such a way that you learn to love to play and will look forward to playing.

13

Some thoughts from a flutist with arthritis in the hands (now in remission, hopefully to stay that way):

You don’t grip the flute. Grip implies muscle tension and strength. You balance the flute.

No part of your body should hurt. No set of muscles should be particularly tense. Speed and accuracy of fingering is impossible if the fingers, wrists, or even elbows are tense. Efficient breathing is impossible if the shoulders, arms, or chest are tense.

Different flutists find different grips that work for them, and there is no “one right way”.

That said, the approach that works for me:

There are 3 points of contact to balance the flute: the chin, the base of the left index finger, and the right thumb.

The chin (or the lower lip, depends upon how you look at it) is a fulcrum. The flute rests gently against it but isn’t held up by it.

The base of the left index finger rests on the side of the flute away from you, and presses gently in. It doesn’t go underneath the flute, and it doesn’t “hold the flute up.” The left thumb can either hang free or be held gently to the flute but it doesn’t go underneath the fute and it doesn’t hold it up.

The end of the right thumb rests on the side of the flute closest to you, about midway between the first and second finger right hand. Again, it doesn’t go underneath the flute, but rather against the side of it, pushing gently out.

Try to keep your wrists straight. This will bring the elbows up and away from the body, and that’s ok: that helps with good breathing and good posture in general.

The head should be held normally, and the neck should be relaxed.

That’s the approach that works for me, and for many other flutists. If you ever hear a flutist talking about the “Rockstro grip” or the “James grip,” this is it. (Note: I’m not that James.)

Best wishes, and keep working with it! You’ll find a way that works for you.

–James

14

My cramping stopped when I stopped playing pipers’s grip. My thumb is at about T2 as well. The big thing was turning my palm out a bit. Once I did that it was the right position for my hand to strenghten up quickly.

Cheers,
Aaron

15

excellent advice from David L. & peeplj. you might try long tones on 1st octave C#, paying particular attention to how little effort it takes to support the flute. then, slowly alternate between C# and other 1st octave tones, using the smallest possible effort to cleanly sound the lower notes, & completely relaxing on the C#. i try for feeling like the fingers are “floating”, both above open toneholes, but also “floating” when closing toneholes. (long tones are a great way to notice what’s going on as we play.)

fwiw, /dan

16

This is very helpful to me, a rank beginner and all. I notice tension real quick. I wanted also to stress that all musicians have to stretch and warm up before playing. It simple has to be done.
I had a neck injury during a horse training accident and at one time things looked pretty grim, I fought back with some remarkable surgery and Doctors, but also rehabilitative excercise.

You have to protect your hands from fast warm ups and quick stops in activity. Ease in, ease out. Do a search on the net for simple stretching exercises to stretch the back, neck arm, hand anf finger muscles. The best are isometric types, (one hand pressing against the other…).

I cannot stress enough how important it is to properly prepare and cool out after playing. Through exercise and strengthening I can now play the guitar, (those arthritic tendons do snap a nice bar chord), and play the NA Flute as well as try ing to learn flute.

It’s better to warm up and prepare than hurt yourself and not be able to play for a month. You should stop playing if you are having repetative pain on a regular basis while playing, (or working for that matter), and see a good Doctor. Maybe if you are first starting out, some pain may occur, yes, but not after learning your particular style.

Try doing things as suggested here, I was surprised to read about floating that flute instead of giving it the Gorilla grip on the second octave. So much to learn, so much frustration to suffer, the humiliation, the thrill of making it through just one song.

17

Well I have done a couple of days practice taking all this good advice to heart, trying out all the suggestions, esp. David’s to chill out and slow down, and AAron’s tip about turning the left palm out seems to suit my hand configuration very well. I can feel things changing, stretching, sounding smoother, slowly becoming more possible…
All the relaxation advice reminds me of my favourite guitar playing website,
http://www.guitarprinciples.com
which got my guitarplaying off the ground after years of cramped and uncomfortable playing. Much of what the guy says there can be translated to any instrument - he’s very intense though! Dan, he would second your balancing advice - despite having spent ages learning to correctly balance a guitar so it doesn’t slip round when you change chord, I hadn’t applied that principle to the flute, which kept rolling down my face!! :blush:
Much to learn. Thanks to you guys for helping me along.

Julia C

18

I finger the Irish flute using the flat finger piper’s grip with both hands. For the C#, when all of the finger holes are open, I support the flute by making contact with the flute just under my lips, with the third joint of my left index finger, and with the second joint of my right index finger. Very light pressure is required to support the flute with these three points of contact. The fingers can stick up in the air, and the thumbs can drop to a relaxed position away from the flute.

Now to play the first octave D, with five of the six finger holes covered, I
support the flute, as mentioned above using the three points of contact with the flute. In addition, I allow my fingers to extend over the covered finger holes, wherever it feels most relaxed and comfortable, and I allow my thumbs to gently touch and support the flute. My thumbs touch the bottom of the flute just underneath the corresponding index fingers. Not counting the fingers which are covering the finger holes, I now have five supporting positions of contact with the flute. I find this way of holding the flute very relaxing. But all hands are different, and there are many satisfactory methods for holding a flute.

Happy fluting! :slight_smile:

19

I have been trying the many good suggestions mentioned in this thread with great results, not only is balancing the flute more comfortable for playing, but by emulating the position shown by the flutists picture, I get perfect tone everytime. If all is in place I get a perfect pure tone and I can run the scales with little effort or extra movement. I sure am enjoying my playing experience now, was hard getting past the frustrating part where you can’t even blow in key. The dogs are no longer hiding from me and my husband is not looking at me like I’m nuts for having even tried this new instrument. Thanks to all, am enjoying my flute much more and much quicker than I expected.
Thanks again, and I look forward to much more good advice in the future!
Now all I have to do is decide on a wood flute, (since I now know I can actually play one of these things)! I know I have lots of resources here on these pages to check out, will keep you posted as to my further progress, am glad I took it up, it’s a great instrument once you get to know it!
Terri

20

Oddly enough I came about this from a drawing in the liner notes of a Waterboys CD. It was of a man playing flute and I was intrigued by the position of his left hand but chalked up to it being a drawing. I tried to see how it would feel and it was like a lightbulb switching on. I quit playing pipers’ grip from then on. I’m glad it works for you.

Cheers,
Aaron