Am I the only person who thinks that this is unessesary? The stretch on a diet flute is the same as on a real flute, do people just follow suit because they think it looks cool. Maybe they are having delusions of musicianship & are pretending they are a piper in their own world? What gives?
It takes a little getting used to but playing with the finger tips has big time advantages.
my hands aren’t big enough to use my finger tips. i think piper’s grip is also very natural.
Um, this is the logic I don’t get. To use a piper’s grip you use the pad of your 2nd knuckle, to do so you’re spreading your fingers slightly further apart than if you use you fingertips.
I really think a lot of this is in the mind.
Unless your fingertips are too small to cover the holes, that I can understand.
What’s a diet flute? 
I’m a flute player and i never use piper grip. I never drink Diet Coke either. I think many flute players switched to piper’s grip without thinking it through, just because somebody told them to “get a grip”!
g
The Low whistle (AKA fake flute, flute light, flute jr. etc etc)
I used to play with a mixed grip: piper’s grip on the top (left) hand and fingertips on the lower (right) hand. But I found that my right hand tired quickly and especially my thumb started hurting. Also, on low Ds with the much-smaller-further-down sixth hole, I found it unworkable.
I now use a full piper’s grip, and it’s much easier on my hands.
About the spread: The advantage of the piper’s grip is covering the upper two holes with your second pad, but the lower, third hole with your first pad. (the one closest to the finger tip). That requires the right angle in the hand but much less stretch than finger tips.
I’ve tried piper’s grip and never got the hang of it. I have small hands for a man, but a good stretch. I used to play contra-alto clarinet, currently play classical and fingerstyle guitar and can reach over an octave comfortably on the piano. The problem I had with piper’s grip is sealing the holes. But then, my low whistles are currently Howards. I have to use my fingertips to seal the holes. Also, with piper’s grip I found my fingers had to travel further to lift off the notes, slowing me down on fast passages. Just my observances.
my low D is more balanced in my hands with piper’s grip. and like bloom says it’s the angle of the piper’s grip that does it. the pad of my second knuckle is also the middle of my finger, from there the balance again. with piper’s grip, my hands are relaxed, and they are more in controle.
i admit that the spread is slighty larger compared to playing with fingertips, but if you feel comfortable, there’s no need for a change.
i believe low whistle and flute are different beasts concerning pipers grip. i think in your case it’s quiet normal, you started out with the flute and are used to play with your fingertips. i believe flutes are best played with finger tips.
Let’s not argue… whatever works best for you.
I play pipes and find a pipers grip the right thing for me to do on a low whistle. With average sized hands, I am able to use my fingertips but sacrifice speed in doing so.
I started out playing an open hole boehm flute so I’m used to using my fingertips but with the low whistle my hands just aren’t in the right position to play comfortably and at full speed unless I use the piper grip, also it just feels more natural.
Brad,
Just to repeat what other’s have touched on.
For me its not the whole spacing that’s the problem, I don’t use pipers grip on my flute. With low whistle it the length of my right arm and the angle of my wrist. Using the pads of the tips on all of the holes would give my right wrist such a cramp that the whistle would be unplayable.
Piper’s grip allows me to relax my wrist and let my fingers do the work. If my arms were longer, I might be able to put a bend at the elbow and rotate the forearm closer to 90 degrees from the shaft of the whistle. Right now, using pipers grip the reach work and my arm is somewhere around 75 degrees from the shaft, but the wrist is basicly straight.
I’ve had enough problems with repetitive stress injuries that, for me, the relief is not just easier, it’s safer.
Its the ergonomics of an end blown instrument. If your arms are longer, great, but for those with shorter arms, piper’s grip is better.
Either way, It’s what and from where you play, not how you hold the thing that lets you …
try rolling on B, or doing an effective fingerbounce without using pipers grip. I think it IS nessecary to get a certain sound. Mike McGodrick even plays his flute with pipers grip (with both hands) for this reason. It seems more natural for your hands to sit on the whistle/flute/chanter as they would if you were to lay them palm down on a table relaxed than to contort them into a twisted claw of musical imperfection and use the finger tips. Take a little bit of time to explore this technique before you talk trash about it!
While travelling on the train to work, I sometimes become conscious of the size of the hands of fellow passengers. Many women have hands a lot bigger than mine! Interestingly. I’m presently getting to grips(!) with the Dixon Low D whistle/flute and I’m experimenting with hand fingering. In theory, it would be nice to use the same finger positions for the flute and low D. I notice that Brad uses what seems like an awkward left hand position on the flute - Seamus Egan ( on his cd-rom tutor ) can be seen holdind his left hand the same manner. Brad has something when he talks about perseverance. I would think that being able to switch between different hand positions - as some recorder players do - would be a good skill to develop.
I suppose it’s because pipes came to me before whistles, but, I use a piper’s grip always, no matter what size whistle. I would certainly be impossible for me to play a Low D without it. While I can reach over an octave on piano, my fingers are very slim.
And there’s no way piper’s grip should makes one play slower.
Listen to a good piper- birls, taorluaths, leumluaths, crunluaths-
you can’t get any quicker finger movements than this. All with piper’s grip.
I have more or less given up on playing the Low D whistle because of my hand size. However, I will chime in with the same observation that Bloomfield made, though on a more Lilliputian scale–specifically, with reference to Low G and A whistles.
Jerry Freeman tweaked a Shaw A for me (Thanks to Didymus for the gift of it!) and I have been playing it for 15 to 20 minutes a night for the past few weeks. The whistle has some real nice sound to it, though it requires a higher level of conscious attention to detail–hole coverage, clean lifts and breathing–than most (smaller) whistles I play. I have found so far that I cannot consistently get decent sounding notes @ d, e and f in either octave with finger tips on the last three holes. However, when I use the grip that is the subject of this post, I get better play. (Proving once again that the fault is not with the whistle, in this case, a real earthy and fine sounding whistle–when it is played right.) I cannot explain it, because I accept the obvious point that the distance is greater at the tip that down a knuckle or two.
As I’m sure lots of folks have experienced, the attention to basics that the larger whistles require pays big dividends when you then pick up a smaller whistle.
Anyway, that’s my two cents’ worth,
Tom D.
THE TWISTED CLAW OF MUSICAL IMPERFECTION!!
I like it. Would Hellbound Skunk or any other C & F Board members object if I were to consider appropriating this (unfortunately and uncomfortably) apt image as my C & F ‘Nom de Plume’?
Now, to find just the right graphic clip to use for the avatar to replace the current Gray Ghost!
Tom D.
No, but for some folks, it’s very necessary.
For me, no. But then I can comfortably play a bass Bb with fingertips.
Hi Folks,
I use pipers grip on the low whistle simply because that’s what was recommended to me. I didn’t give it much thought. I noticed that Brad holds the flute in the same way (or very similar) I would. I tried holding a low D like a flute and it would work ok for me so I suppose it’s not strictly nessecary to use pipers grip. That said using pipers grip on low whistles helped when I started to learn the chanter. I’ve seen people using pipers grip on a flute and was wondering how you would operate the Bb and Cn keys?
Cheers, Mac
Yes, if the fipple flute has a conical bore, and relatively small holes.
I have a Le Coant blackwood low D which I could easily play with my fingertips.
The Copeland would have the same stretch, but some holes are just to big for my fingertips.
From his scriptures, you learn by Sankt Theoböhm the Bald that, when he decided to improve the flute, he went for straight bore (for a better 3rd register) and bigger holes (for tone and power), thus departing from the traditional British flutes design.
Then he found out the fingering stretch ended up unmanageable, and went on developing his fully-keyed system.
Now, if you take in account most low whistles are metal, with big holes, here’s your answer.
If when 8 years old I had been offered a Boehm-system piano instead of a Campagnolo-system bicycle, I’d be a musician by now.
Go for it!