I have read quite a number of threads/posts of late, in which either the OP, or another individual contributing to the thread, makes a disparaging comment concerning the use of piper’s grip, for lower whistles. Some comments make the grip’s use sound like something to be avoided at all cost, and others make it sound difficult, which it is not . Other posters speak of attempting to find a whistle, with finger spacings that negate the need for piper’s grip. It seems that some will go to truly great lengths, to avoid the scourge of dealing with the dreaded grip…
It simply strikes me as odd, that a technique that is so universally accepted as a part of low whistle playing, should be avoided, by some. I understand that we live in a society that often runs on instant gratification. It is true that piper’s grip will take a bit of practice. However, it is truly worth the effort. When piper’s grip is learned and understood, it is a thoroughly natural movement of the human hands, which leads to an ease of low whistle playing, not available with any other technique.
I use the pipers grip on low whistle and after a year can now go as fast on it as I can on my high D (most tunes…still very fledgling at it mind you).
I am beginning with the flute and also looked to use pipers style on it but with much more advice against than for. I understand the ‘key’ issue with it and how that may be very difficult if impossible using pipers. I have been working with a more classical style with the left hand on it. That is till I watched Michael McGoldrick last week and had a chat with him after. If I never progress to using keys then fine - if I play half as well as him using pipers then brilliant. It feels right for me.
Sorry for going a bit transverse on you there for a moment but I am very in favour of pipers on low D’s and have seen a few brilliant players using it with ease to convince me otherwise.
(PS - that Cooks low D I got from you some time back Byll is now in the hands of a piper friend of mine, who uses pipers grip on it too - his name is Cook - it was too appropriate not to gift it to him!)
I’ve never understood the “difficulties of the piper’s grip” either. I use it for any whistle I play, from high D on down, and find that it is more comfortable and as fast as any other option. Playing this way also makes moving to larger, deeper whistles much easier.
I’m actually looking to get my first low whistle (I’m after a D), and I certainly want to learn the piper’s grip. You can’t play slides and such using helper-keys (on the notes that are harder to reach at first).
While i personally don’t use piper’s grip on my low whistles, the hands-down most fantastic low whistle player i’ve ever heard, Tyler Duncan (formerly of the band Millish) uses piper’s grip on both low whistle AND on his higher pitched whistles as well. I had the pleasure of playing with him several times and he plays even the high D whistle with a piper’s grip. The aspect of the that technique that he takes great advantage of is the ease with which you can band notes and play half-notes etc. He (keep in mind that he’s also a genius) can play almost any scale, at a blazing speed, on a simple D whistle.
Stephen: It is good to hear from you, and to know the Cook is in good hands…
I also use piper’s grip on most whistles. I play high D and C, the ‘standard’ way, with piper’s grip being used for everything ‘on down.’ It is interesting how a variation in the piper’s grip can be used for super low instruments, below low D. I play a baritone C, and have seen others use a modified piper’s grip, down to bass A.
Yes, I’m not sure why the Sturm und Drang about piper’s grip either. I think part of the problem for beginners is purely psychological, in giving it a separate name. Makes it sound special and scary. It’s not. How about the “Just shift your fingers over a little bit to cover the holes” grip.
I know maybe a half dozen whistlers here who occasionally play low whistles. And not one of them doesn’t use piper’s grip when needed at least on the bottom hand.
My mom, who has teeny tiny hands compared to mine, can manage piper’s grip on my Overton low D (in guinea pig mode … sorry, Mom!).
It’s no big thang. No special hole layouts or keys needed for most people. Just do it.
Hello Folks - I am not new to this forum (been reading/playing for months) but I have been hiding in the wings until today. My background has been much more involved with the Native American Flute and these players seem to have much more difficulty adapting to wide reaching finger holes than do players of the Irish Whistle.
I very much agree with previous posts that the thought of making the stretch of the piper’s grip is much more difficult than is the actual physical act of using the piper’s grip. I am a very short fingered male who is just shy of my 70th birthday. Arthritis is also peeking its ugly head onto my fingers as is usual with most people of this vintage. That is OK as it is part of the aging process!! Recently I started playing the low D whistle and the reach to the bottom fingerhole was a horrible experience and I became very very discouraged and put the instrument aside to gather dust. But my “swamp yankee” don’t quit attitude took over my efforts. In a nutshell I practiced all the time but in a very very slow manner. When my fingers said quit I stopped! Eventually my flexibility increased and the time span I spent with the piper’s grip also lengthened. My muscle memory system is now “kicking in” and I am able to play more and more without thinking about finger placement/stretch. I think the solution for most players is PRACTICE, PRACTICE and more PRACTICE but also making sure that common sense rules the day is regards to the possibility of injury.
As I age I may not be getting smarter but I am definitely wiser. My last parting advice is if you want to play using the piper’s grip be very very patient.
Yes indeed it’s strange that people going onto the Low Whistle are resistant to this grip, whereas everyone learning uilleann pipes and Highland pipes and Bulgarian pipes etc etc as well as Bulgarian kaval and many other traditional flutes take this grip for granted.
Heck I see quite a few jazz trumpet players using it! That is, using the middle pads of the fingers rather than the end pads.
yes, I don’t know what the big hoobie joobie is about piper’s grip.
I have never owned a Clarke Tinwhistle.
Someone wrote their phone number on a Clarke info sheet
and gave me their phone number that way.
I was tidying a drawer this morning and found it.
It says,
When covering a hole the pads of the fingers should be used, not the the tips. (The pad is the area about midway between the tip and the first joint.) The fingers should be held flat. Do not arch or curve them.
And that is a basic description of pipers’ grip. It could be more detailed and explain natural variations that may occur as in playing a low whistle you may need the pad to be at the 2nd joint for some of your fingers but that is it in a nutshell
A basic traditional whistle with a traditional instruct on how to finger.
I am sure that traditional is natural because when, nearly 50 years ago, I was given my first whistle (a indian made Bb) that is the precise fingering I self taught or rather discovered myself doing. Of course I wasn’t playing ITM but then hands and whistle holes aren’t culture specific are they?
And if some of you thought my preceding post was going to go something like this:-
I have never owned a Clarke Tinwhistle.
Someone wrote their phone number on a Clarke info sheet
and gave me their phone number that way.
I was tidying a drawer this morning and found it.
It says,
By the way, I just realised a couple weeks ago that I’ve been using a different Grip for the Low Whistle than the one I use for the GHB and UP. I’ve probably always done it, just not paid attention.
On the lower hand of the GHB and UP everyone uses the middle-joint pads of their index, middle, and ring fingers but the endjoint pad of their little finger, simply because these pads happen to line up this way. (Both types of chanters have four fingerholes for the bottom hand.)
But on the Low D Whistle I’ve been using the middle-joint pads of my index and middle fingers but the endjoint pad of my ring finger. So, both on pipes and Low D Whistle, the index and middle fingers use the middle-joint pad and the lowest finger uses the end-joint pad. Hmmm…
What I’ve been working on recently is using the Piper’s Grip for the upper hand, which oddly I’ve never done on any of the pipes I’ve played over the last 35 years (GHB, uilleann pipes, Bulgarian gaida, Spanish gaita, Cornish Doublepipes, Northumbrian smallpipes). I’ve been trying to duplicate my Low Whistle lower-hand grip with my upper hand and finally after some months it’s beginning to feel “right”.
If the truth be known, there is probably no one ‘piper’s grip’, that exactly fits everyone, in every situation. Slight modifications will occur, based on the length/diameter of the whistle, and the size of one’s hands. The whole idea is to create a personal grip, which not only easily covers the tone holes, but also is the most comfortable, for each individual situation.
Yep, I think of the basic piper’s grip algorithm as: bottom pad on the bottom hole, then rotate the hand around that pivot to place the other fingers in position. If you apply this with an imaginary B4 hole on whistle, in imitation of pipes, you get the “alternative” grip.
I don’t understand what is so strange about if someone attempts to cover the tone holes with the pads of the first phalanges. After all we are very sensitive in our finger tips, and can feel tone holes much better than with the middle phalanges. It is sort of natural to try to cover the holes with the tips, not strange at all. At least if you try to teach yourself, or come from a background of having played a recorder or flute.
I personally try to avoid piper’s hold on whistles if I can help it, because I have more feeling and dexterity in my finger tips, and I am used to feeling the holes with them. I even finger my B bansuri with my tips, against all tradition. Maybe it shows I never had a teacher.
I find it quite difficult to half hole for instance for Fnat using the middle finger pads: I would need to shift the pad sideways, whereas using the end pad I pull the finger in a bit to half cover the fifth hole. It seems for successful piper’s hold you need some personal tuition, it is not coming that naturally.
Years ago, in the last century, I tried to play my first low whistle with the fingertips.
Felt like a camel, trying to squeeze through the eye of a needle.
Ouch.
A kind soul, Mr Brown, @ the Mendocino Lark in the Morning, initiated me into the Obvious.
Piper’s Grip. Eureka.
My whistling life was instantly transformed…into all these many years of enjoyment.
These days, I happily murmur along on the biggest, lowest whistles my Piper’s Grip will allow. (Ring-finger tips used…both hands. To each, their own.)
Embrace the (what may be for you) inevitable. It’s an ancient and worldwide tube-with-holes accommodation.
Hans, your post is a good one and I think what you describe is shared by many players. I appreciate your thoughts on the subject. I too played flute, high whistle and recorder (ducks, to avoid vegetables! ) for many years before coming to the low whistle. So, of course, I used the pad of the first finger joint to cover my tone holes. I was used to playing within that box or frame of reference. Our experiences with low whistles seem to be a little different, as I suspect are the size of our hands.
I struggled to play my lower pitched bamboo flutes (made some fellow in Virginia) for years using the traditional first finger pad approach and a classical grip (darn that Boehm fellow!). I do not have large hands. I bought a few low whistles as they came into the market and had the same issues as the bamboo flutes. Somehow I stumbled onto using what I now know as the piper’s grip and it opened up a lot of possibilities. I was free at last. I could play those bamboo flutes now too. It took a couple of weeks to get up to speed but the effort was not particularly difficult. Sliding into and out of notes is not hard nor is half-holing. Feeling the holes with the second pad is no different than it is with the first pad, you just need to make yourself more aware. I do see players, men particularly, that have no issues stretching to play a low whistle with their finger tips. With the smallish size of my hands I really had no other good option to play low pitched simple flutes comfortably. I just had to get out of that box. Like all things it just takes some practice.
I make whistles and have placed quite a few into the hands of other players. I frequently marvel at the variation in size and shape of the fingers of individual musicians. Some are short and thick and others are long and slender. What works for one player may not always work for another. Piper’s grip is an option for some hands and the only way for others to play some instruments. I am one of those that find no reason to avoid or even fear the piper’s grip.
I want to thank my friend Byll for bringing this thread to life.
) for many years before coming to the low whistle. So, of course, I used the pad of the first finger joint to cover my tone holes. I was used to playing within that box or frame of reference. Our experiences with low whistles seem to be a little different, as I suspect are the size of our hands.