Every now and then on this list and in similar forums, questions come up such as:
when did Rudall & Rose first start using the claw foot touch arrangement?
what’s the earliest known serial number at the Southhampton St address?
when did use of the Patent Head die out?
when did they switch to card-backed pads?
when did they stop using double springs?
and so on. Sometimes someone will know the answer, but then it’s lost again. I thought it would be good for us to have a place to store such information as it comes to light.
But, while I’ve created the place to keep the answers, I haven’t come up with the answers themselves. That’s going to take some time, and more resources than I have. That’s where you might come in - you’ll see I’ve identified lots of the questions! So, check out the repository at: http://www.mcgee-flutes.com/Rudall_Development.htm.
And let me issue an invitation to the Jems, Dave Migoyas, and our makers and restorers to dip into their resources and give us some starting points as soon as possible. It doesn’t matter if they are not the final word. For example, if someone asserts that double springing stopped at #3440, and the owner of a later flute chimes in that theirs is double sprung, we just amend the record.
In particular, Dave, are you likely to be in a position to update the first and last serial numbers at each address in the near future from your catalogue? If not, I’ll take the figures I have and install them for the time being.
I look forward to discussion. And especially - what other features have I overlooked that we would like placed in time?
mine may be the first pillar mount simple system and also first round seating on the pewter keys? the sockets are silver lined and it has a double Bb touch…
but when i play it later i can check the number…maybe 4836?
Nice project, Terry - should make a very handy resource - though the bulk of the requisite data must be in David’s (lamentably missed) Catalogue.
I don’t think I’ve got (or have access to) very much that helps, though. Not much beyond what I sent you long ago about my own flute plus what may be deduced from the “Party of R&Rs” thread I ran a while back - some interesting design variations apparent there if you want to harvest the info, and I may be able to get supplementary info if you have any specific Qs about any of those flutes.
Could be - the earliest I have noted otherwise is 4974. The interesting question here though is is it best seen as a “development”, in the sense that it replaces the process that went before, or an option? Looking through my records, post mounting never “took off”. We see a number of post mounted flutes, but they diminish and leave the field to the block mounts.
That deserves some consideration doesn’t it. You would think that, with the rest of the instruments made by the organisation all post mount (1851, Boehm, Radcliff, etc) they would be pleased to reduce the range of manufacturing approaches in use. My theory is (and we’ll see if the growing data supports this) that RC regarded the 8-key as a legacy product, and pretty much left it alone, having specialist craftsmen (probably out of house) making them as needed.
Ditto matters like the double Bb touch - an option, rather than a developement. I already have a page for downright weird Rudalls, http://www.mcgee-flutes.com/RR_Odd.htm. Do we need another page, called Rudall Options?
I’m hoping so too, Jem! But even if the data is in there, it still has to be winkled out, so I’m hoping the new Chronology will be an easier one-stop-shop, a well as allowing us to see the data in context with other events, eg Prattens bringing out his Perfected.
(If other potentially influential events occur to people, let’s whack them in there too. Showing something had no effect is just as interesting as proving it did!)
I don’t think I’ve got (or have access to) very much that helps, though. Not much beyond what I sent you long ago about my own flute plus what may be deduced from the "> Party of R&Rs> " thread I ran a while back - some interesting design variations apparent there if you want to harvest the info, and I may be able to get supplementary info if you have any specific Qs about any of those flutes.
OK, I’ll have a look and pester you for further details. Just keep the chronology in mind as you go about your business, and point out anything that might be a turning point.
In the meantime, we need to up the pressure on Dave. How unreasonable to allow petty considerations like having his own life to lead interfere with our enjoyment! Shhh, I think he’s coming …
Re: Rudall oddities, did I ever send you bumf on #7548, Terry? The very late (1930s) Bohm-bore A=440 8-keyer now owned and played by Calum Stewart using a modern head. I made a pretty full record of it when it passed through my hands - just as well as Calum parted with its head once he found one that suited him better (somewhat to my distress, but I know where it has gone, FWIW). And I now have an 8-key F band flute #4724 (seems pretty clear there were different serial sequences for non-D flutes, piccolos etc.) with Bohm style foot - short post with pictures on pg40 of the Flute Lichen Sticky…
anyway…Thank you Terry!! Happy for your return back in action!
I’ve got this link from C&F years ago, http://www.musictrader.com/rudallrose.html,
I think it is a bit..unprecise but gives an idea…it may be usefull untill DM cat. is offline?
OK, did a little more mining of my own data to answer the question about how embouchure hole sizes varied over the 80 years covered so far. The short answer (inserted in the Chronology) is:
Is that the most recent version of David’s stuff that is archived? There was quite a bit more on it later… so any links to a later archived version would be handy!
Action may be somewhat of a [grump deleted] overstatement, Radcliffe. And don’t imagine you’re receiving [grump deleted] service with a [grump deleted] smile. My ISP has his [grump deleted] Grump filter on max!
Still, every day a little [grump deleted] better. [grump deleted]!
Ah, yes, Jem, you did, and I haven’t yet enfolded it into my data. That’s terrific as it provides a far better end point than my 7120. So let me do a bit of data shuffling and see what that tells us …
