newbie question here-
I understand half-holing-but crossfingering?? I have been playing the c-nat with the top hole half-holed- is the way you diagramed it with the 2nd and 3rd holes closed?? I tried it and it sounds right- so just checking. Also- any particular reason to half-hole vs this other way??
There are lots and lots of threads on this issue, including some recent ones. A forum search should turn them up for you.
I’d say keep half holing since you’re already using that technique. You can transfer that skill and use it to play F nat, G#, D#/Eb etc.
Hi Anita,
I would put it this way: cross-fingering (on a keyless instrument) is an alternative way of playing a tone that cannot be played by using that instruments recognised standard/usual fingering. It could be argued that by finding the cross-fingering for an instrument, you are in fact finding that particular instruments ‘standard’ positions for cross-fingering certain notes.
Half-holing is the technique of covering/uncovering a tone hole part way to reach a half way point between the tone that would be heard when the hole was completely covered/uncovered. (ie, On a D whistle, B when the top hole is covered, Cnat when half-holed, and C# when all holes are uncovered)
I think it’s safe to say that the cross-fingering positions for certain notes can change from one whistle to the next. Some ways of cross-fingering a particular note will sound better on one whistle compared to another and the same thing applies to half-holing. You may find that half-holing a Cnat on one whistle will give you a brighter/stronger/clearer sound than a cross-fingered Cnat, and vice-versa.
There is no hard and true way to play those half-tone/accidentals, it is a matter of what sounds best for the particular instrument you are playing.
So how do you know which cross-fingering to use on a given whistle? Me, I just muck around trying different finger positions around or near the note I wish to flatten/sharpen until I get as near to the note I need, but I must say that most times I will go for half-holed notes. They (for me) are easiest to play, with practice they are easier to hit on fast tunes than cross-fingered notes. Others may get better mileage from the cross-fingering technique.
It’s not rocket science though, so learn both ways, it can’t hurt to find what sorts of sounds you can get from your whistle by using different fingerings.
(Fingerings!! is that even a word? Ha-ha!!)
Cheers, Happy whistling.
All depends on what you want the whistle to do.
It is quite difficult to execute a partial hole cover crisply at speed - it is never half.
It is also quite difficult to cross-finger if the preceding or trailing notes are contiguous (e.g. c-nat followed by B).
There will be challenges whichever way you go. For myself, i work on both methods - they tend to sound different and each can be better depending on the tune.
True about half holing at speed-it’s not easy. However, at full speed the note doesn’t last long, so if it’s a tad sharp or flat it’s not too noticeable. Listen to Mary Bergin. At a workshop, she said she “couldn’t imagine” playing a C nat any way but half holed, and I’ve never heard complaints about her intonation 
Another poster mentioned,rightly, that cross fingerings vary from whistle to whistle. However, half holing is universal.
That said, I DO use cross fingerings too. Whatever works. I’d just like to encourage people who think that half holing is too difficult to bother with to think it over. It’s a really useful skill.
Mitch said;
It is quite difficult to execute a partial hole cover crisply at speed - it is never half.
There are two separate points to pick up on here; one is, It is not at all difficult to half hole at speed, it just needs practice.
And secondly, it is true Mitch, it is never quite truly half, (and again, it takes practice to get it right, and there will be times when you do hit a clean sounding half note) but most times the senses will be tricked into hearing a half note as the brain automatically compensates for the slightly sharp/flat note the ear picks up.
Mitch also said;
It is also quite difficult to cross-finger if the preceding or trailing notes are contiguous (e.g. c-nat followed by B).
That’s right Mitch, that is when you should utilise the half hole method.
I don’t find it at all difficult to half hole around Cnat and B, I find I am split between playing the half holed Cnat and oxxooo fingering. I don’t have a particular way that I prefer to play the Cnat, for me it just depends on the tune I am playing at the time as to which one I will use.
I find the Fnat to be the hardest to play cleanly as a half-holed note, mainly because the F# hole is so small.
Hey Mitch, ever heard of this? 
; http://www.celt.com.au/summer.html
Well there are many reasons to use the crossfingered C natural
oxx xox
or
oxx oox
But the most important reason is, because that’s how it’s usually done by traditional players. When I set out to learn Irish music in the 70’s I studied the genuine traditional players and tried to mimick them as closely as possible. Now somebody will chime in and say “But Padraig O Soandso plays his C naturals by halfholing them” and sure enough in the tradition you will find a variety of approaches to anything. But nevertheless there does exist, on pretty much any issue, a usual way, a normal way, a way which could be called the “standard” way, to which there will be exceptions.
And, fact is, the vast majority of older traditional flute players and whistle players use the crossfingered C natural.
If an appeal to logic is required, I might point out that the crossfingered C natural is much more accurate and facile in rapid passages, and also the crossfingered C natural can be rolled upon such as"
oxx xox
oxx xxx
oxx xox
xxx xox
oxx xox
(long roll on C natural)
Also, the crossfingered C natural is one of the many shared techniques among the various Irish wind instruments (uilleann pipes, flute, whistle). Oftentimes in Irish wind music a particular technique on a particular instrument may not seem the most logical way until the broader picture is seen. As somebody who has always played uilleann pipes and flute and whistle I’ve always appreciated this shared body of technique.
To half hole cleanly between two adjacent notes (eg B and C) just add a bit of tongue articulation. Or, depending on the tune, just slur the notes. That’s another advantage to learning half holing: it’s a skill closely related to slurring which is often a terrific effect to use in a tune.
I’m pretty much with Pancelticpiper here. To my mind cross-fingering is far easier and more reliable and accurate (allowing for finding and using the optimum cross-fingering for the particular instrument and musical context). I almost never half-hole - pretty much only for F naturals where there is no alternative and maybe for tapped or glissandoed G#. admittedly I’ve never practiced half-holing C naturals, so I find trying to do so rather awkward and insecure. Once learned, the cross-fingerings are perfectly easy and convenient to hit in almost any note-combination. It is, I think quite valid to say the sequence Bcd played xoo ooo - oxx xox - oxx xxx offers absolutely no technical barrier to any level of player (assuming the willingness to practice the sequence half-a-dozen times!), and really ought to be easier than the equivalent with a half-holed C!)
I take it brewerpaul means “sliding” (glissando) rather than “slurring” (linking notes together in a phrase without tongued or other articulation) in his last post - sure, sliding fingers on/off holes is a useful expressive technique in trad music and has an obvious relationship with half-holing - but you don’t need to be a half-holer (rather than a cross-fingerer) to use it!
But that’s the problem right there, Paul. Any fingering that requires you to use a secondary articulation in order for it to work is inherently flawed. You want to make your articulation choices based on phrasing and other musical considerations, not the mechanics of the fingering. And that’s a problem with all half-hole fingerings, depending on the notes that precede and follow. Which is why whistler players in control of their technique can use both.
Yup Jem, my error. 
Gliss is exactly what I meant.
Guru-- I definitely agree with you: being in control of both techniques is really useful.
thanks all for the info -
tried both the half-holed C nat-which was what I had been doing- and the cross-fingered oxxo one- really did like the cross-fingered feel- although noticed it was hard to go from that to a B while easier for sure to half-hole the C and then play a B 
. As I am so new to this- playing about 2 months now- and only have a couple a dozen tunes in my repertoire, figured if I wanted to switch this was a good time to learn a different way.
So is there a list or something of common cross-fingered notes on a D whistle? I have one that shows half-holed ones but nothing about cross-fingering. I could just experiment I guess but it is kinda hard on the cat 
Anita
Hi Anita, here you go. If you want better resolution copy, pm me your e-address and I’ll send the original Word doc. to you as an attachment. If you want to persecute the cat, just work on the 3rd 8ve stuff!!!
FWIW, and this will depend on what is best on your particular whistle, I very strongly suggest you try out the various alternatives for the 1st 8ve Cnat fingering in particular and then go with the one that works best on your instrument. I would lay fairly good odds that it won’t be oxx ooo… 
(What whistle(s) are you using?) I haven’t tried to give lots of alternatives (where they exist) in the charts above for reasons of space and confusion.
I’ve just spotted one discrepancy in the charts above, BTW (they are adaptations of charts I made for my School Piccolo Project) - the main chart gives 2nd 8ve C nat as oxo xxx, the “Accidentals” chart gives oxx xxo (which is better on the conduit tube piccolos we made) - and on some instruments oxo xxo will be better…see what I mean about confusion?
Don’t let it put you off, however - it is simpler than it sounds to establish the best available fingering on the particular instrument and then practise yourself into its regular use - it swiftly becomes second-nature… and using different fingerings on different instruments as required soon also slots into place - just don’t try to do too much at once!
Good luck!
Nice, Jem. Clear and concise.
Anita: Here’s another chart that’s a bit fussier, but also worth having:
http://www.fullbodyburn.com/html/flutes/whistle_main.html
Also note that dressing exactly like the young lady on the chart while practicing your fingerings may or may not be helpful. 
I’d add these 2nd octave fingerings to Jem’s as worth trying:
f-nat: xxx oxx / xxx xox
g#/ab: xxo xxo
a#/bb: xox ooo
thanks Jem-
PM sent(maybe)- have never used this function before so not too sure of how it works- but would love the chart as a word doc. Actually, it seems that oxx ooo works ok on my whistle- which is a Dixon brass- sounds no different than half-holing the B. And yes, the third octave would really try the cat’s patience- which is being sorely tested by my second octave B at present… 
thanks for the other chart too MT Guru- I’ve bookmarked it and will see if my printer will print it, balky beast that it is- or will print it elsewhere…
have noted the other fingerings for F nat, etc you suggested too- but what does the “ab” and “bb” after g# and a # respectively mean??
Oh, sorry. That’s just A-flat and B-flat, second octave. In other words, the same (enharmonically) as g# and a#.
Just coming back to this thread, because the other day I happened to remember the reel Polly Put The Kettle On.
I’ve given this tune to beginning uilleann pipe, whistle, and flute students because the first part is a real workout on C naturals and the tune pretty much works as an exercise.
I can’t imagine myself, or anybody, playing the reel up to full dancing speed (say 108 to 112 bpm) using halfhole C naturals and playing them cleanly and accurately, and if they could manage it, I would still wonder why bother. There exists a perfectly good traditional fingering for the note, why not use it?
Well I don’t know how to write the devilish ABC notation but using upper case for the notes from bottom D to middle C and lower case for middle d up the tune starts like this:
Cded CAAC BCdC BGGB Cded CAAG EDEG A2AB
Cded CAAC BCdc BGGB CCCA BBBG EDEG A2
this is the whole first part actually…the CCC and BBB are long rolls on those notes.
Almost right. Each octave in ABC runs from C up through B. So just change your C’s to c’s, and add the bar lines, and you’ve got it.
|cded cAAc|Bcdc BGGB|cded cAAG|EDEG A2AB|
|cded cAAC|Bcdc BGGB|cccA BBBG|EDEG A2|
Other session tunes where that seems true to me: The Chicago Reel, The Graf Spey, Castle Kelly … many others.
uhm… i’m confused. If xxx/xxx is D, and xxx/xxo is E, then wouldn’t a half-holed Fnat be xxx/x-o? if this is true, then wouldn’t you be using the largest hole on the bottom half of the whistle, not the smallest?
if my thinking isn’t too far out of whack… if you half hole the smallest hole on the bottom half thusly… xxx/-oo would not the resultant tone be somewhere close to halfway between F# and G? and that would be a quarter tone half hole, wouldn’t it?
as always, i could be, and usually am, in error.
be well,
jim