Crossfingering question

Not really wrong … It’s just a terminology issue.

In piping, the holes are usually named after the note produced by venting that hole. Some people carry that over to whistles. Since F# is produced by lifting the B2 hole, that’s probably what CWM meant.

In whistling, I find it’s more common to refer to the holes after the note produced by closing that hole. So B2 = E, which is what you meant.

Which is why T/B or L/R hole numbers are less ambiguous. :wink:

got it, now. thanks, MTGuru.

be well,

jim

Sorry jiminos, I just read through my post again and I can understand your confusion.
I must have a had a brain fade, because I don’t know why I typed ‘I find the Fnat to be the hardest to play cleanly as a half-holed note’. That should read more like ‘I find the F# hole to be the hardest to play cleanly as a half holed note’. In other words, as you described, by playing xxx-oo. I think the resulting note is a Gb? Go easy on me, I don’t read music, I learned to play by ear.
MT’s right about the carrying over of the piping terminology, but in my case it is just brain fade!

whew- I was puzzling over that one too- tried it out on my whistle and it sure sounded weird and I couldn’t figure out how that would be the F natural note in any event.

CWM: No problem. i suffer from chronic brain fades personally. I just wanted to make sure i was understanding that correctly. It appears we are now all on the same sheet. (BTW… i think if you half hole B3 the resultant tone will be halfway between F# and Gnat… )

MTGuru: thanks again for the assist.

be well,

jim

You mean B1 (top right hand hole), not B3. But yes, that gives you roughly a quarter sharp, or a slightly sharper F# (= G quarter-flat). This is actually useful. Some whistles are tuned close to a just intonated F#, which is ~14 cents flatter than an equal-tempered 12-TET F#. So when playing with another equal tempered instrument (like box or fretted strings), you can open the B1 hole a bit to match the intonation.

Half-holing B3 gives you an Eb, which is the standard and only way to do that on whistle.

yessir. my error. i should have said B1. my apologies.

be well,

jim

And how many traditional players would that be that exclusively cross finger and can you name the majority that you mimicked? And if you can’t remember their names, can you remember how many you mimicked and whether they amount to over 50 percent of all traditional players in Ireland?

I only ask this because you say it is “the most important reason”. That is why these questions are important. Otherwise not.

i preface this by saying… i am NOT an experienced whistle or flute player. i am NOT an expert anything. i am pretty much nobody.

that being said… talasiga’s comment seems designed to start a fight. or am i missing something (and, hence, should shut the hell up)? :confused:

and

maybe i am missing the whole point of music… but isn’t the MOST important thing the sound? i would think that getting the right sound should be the driving force… not who or who does not use cross fingering or half holing. or… again… am i missing something here, and, hence, should shut the hell up? :confused:

be well,

jim

You are making some points here and asking some questions that may challenge earlier posts. Is this then designed to start a fight? If not then why do you suggest that about my questioning posts?

Of course the sound is important and the feelings evoked by them. What is under discussion is how those sounds are produced and whether it need be done according to a traditional manner and whether there is a predominant and subsisting traditional manner and so on.

Pancelticpiper has taken an absolute position about a predominance of a certain manner based on his personal experience with traditional players and he also expressly emphasised the importance of his position. I am querying the bases of his conclusion about what constitutes a majority and also to identify the number and the names of the players who have contributed to his absolute position.

These are fair and salient questions and if my questions are answered nicely one or more of the following outcomes are possible:-

  • pancelticpiper’s absolute position is totally validated
  • pancelticpipers’s absolute position is diluted with valuable elucidation
  • pancelticpiper’s absolute position is withdrawn and replaced by a personal position with valuable insight
  • pancelticpiper’s opinion of certain traditional players as named may be compared to the opinions held by others about the same players
    and so on …

All these outcomes would be useful for the discussion.

'nuff said. you make my point well.

be well,

jim

And I think this thread is cooked.