I play whistle in a band which plays Ceilidh and World music. We have a clarinet player, and I take it as read that if my part is the same as the Bb clarinet and awkward on D whistle then I just pick up a C or a Low C whistle and play it as written. Easy…
But I can’t explain it in simple terms (or any as it happens ). And neither can the guitarist…or the two fiddle players…or the flute player…hey, some of these guys have grade eight music.
Help please before it wrecks the housewarming party Saturday night that most of us will be at (it took up quite enough time at the last rehearsal).
No really, you’ve already got it. On a B-flat clarinet, when you play a C, it sounds as a B-flat, so when you play a D it sounds a C. And on a C whistle when you finger a D it sounds a C, and when you finger a C-natural it sounds as a B-flat.
Neat, huh?
The problem is there are two different ways of naming instrument keys, one for orchestral instruments, and one for folk instruments.
So, yep, it gets plenty confusing. I get myself confused everytime I try to figure one of these things out.
And to dove-tail with what James is saying, the modern flute, which is called a “C” instrument is in actuality a “D” instrument with an additional key tacked on the bottom to hit the low C (or even B on some). The fundamental length is still set up for the “D”, though and so the fingerings are nearly identical with the whistle. In the case of the Bb clarinet, this fundamental length is a C which is why you can play your C against it.
The first paragraph I read on my most recent foray (into North American Flutes) states that these are non-diatonic non-transpositional (and obviously fingerings vary between makers but I can take that much).
Aaargh, what have I done . Can’t cope with all this lot, just as I’ve started to get my head around transposition (at long last).
Okey dokey…that’s good info to know. I knew clarinets played in a funky key. Useful to know I can accompany my kid in a duet if I use a C whistle! Too bad “my” C is a Sindt which won’t arrive 'til probably next July.
Because they don’t transpose. A c written on staff and played on a piano sounds “c”.
“C instrument” ONLY means “non-transposing”, or sounds-as-written. Nothing else.
At least in the typical world of whistle music (Ir trad and related stuff), the D-whistle is a C insturment, because it sounds as written [if we ignore that octave there]. But a C-whistle is not a C instrument, because a written D will sound C, a written G will sound F, and so forth.
Note that as long as you don’t write anything down, C instrument and all that doesn’t matter. To find out if something is a C instrument, write the note c on a staff. Then play it on the instrument. If what you hear is a c (as in major third above 440Mhz, or an octave of that), it’s a C instrument. If you hear any other note, it isn’t.
A piano is a C instrument because it is designed and tuned to the key of C. The black keys are all accidental to the key of C. When other tunings were popular (back before twelve equal temperament tuning) it was not uncommon to find a keyboard tuned to a different key. Now, we have evened out the 1/4 note disparity across the keys and made alternate tunings unnecessary.
I think you may be confusing C instrument and instrument in C. Maybe I am confusing them. And confusing it is. But who cares about the terminology, as long as it’s clear that one thing is an instrument’s tuning, and another is the notation of music for it.
Erik, check this out, gleaned from some online sheet music store:
This is a professional-quality, legal fake book. It was designed as an indispensable resource. Every effort has been made to provide the best song material, as these 250 classic standards will attest. These are also the best arrangements, utilizing the skills of professional musicians across several continents. The finest quality of print is utilized, easy to read from a reasonable distance and featuring a sharp, professional calligraphy print style. This is a great book to have in your library but you’ll seldom leave it on your shelf.
A fake book contains the melody line along with lyrics and chord symbols. It is ideal for a pianist who wants to “fake” the left hand piano part (a fake book does not contain the left hand piano part - it has only the melody), or for anyone who plays a > C instrument > such as flute, violin, harmonica, or recorder.
Then you can get fake books for Bb instruments (like trumpet, trombone, clarinet) or Eb instruments (like alto sax) and so forth, I am sure.
I think you’re right… here’s me upstairs talking to my wife,
“So when you play your tenor sax, you’re playing what’s written, right?”
“Yes, it’s a C instrument.”
“So you have to transpose your alto?”
“Right.”
“So if I’m playing a Bb…”
It just got painful from there! I know the reasons, but I still can’t help thinking that the inventors of these instruments were insane.
So, when I pick up my C whistle and look at the music on the page I see a “C” note, I play XXX XXX (the bell note C) and then play C on the keyboard, they sound the same. XXX XXO sounds a D and so on up the scale. No sharps, no flats. A “C” scale par excellence. That makes it a “C” instrument, no?
BUT in IrTrad (and related stuff) a tune typically will be written as if it were played on a d-whistle. So that means: when you see a D on the page (just below the bottom line of the staff), you would finger it xxx xxx, and not xxx xxo, even on a c-whistle. As a result (in IrTrad), a c written on the staff would be played oxxooo, which will sound a Bb on a C-whistle. Meaning that (in IrTrad), the C-whistle is a Bb instrument, but the D-whistle is a C instrument. Cool, eh?
Now if that isn’t the clinching argument to go and learn by ear, I don’t know what is.
There is also the cross fingerings to be considered. Just like you can both play D and G tunes on a “D” whistle (the C instrument) try playing the tune on a low G instead of the C whistle (the B flat instrument). The range will fit better on some tunes as the low G whistle plays both G and C and their associated “moody” modes (D min or A min or some such silly name, anyhow the center moves one note up from a fingered “D” or “A”)
I thought I knew this, but I’m confused now and I think I will go throw up and learn that tune by ear, no matter how many whistles I have to pick up.
Right then, so I decide to defect to the harmony end of things and play riffs with the saxes (well, I would if I could hear myself think…)…which whistles now ??
Okay, so what does a whistle player do if he’s trying to play something that’s not in D?
I have a small tune here in Eb that I want to play – do I pick up the Eb whistle, and then finger a written Eb as a XXX XXX? Or do I finger a written D as XXX XXX and it will just “come out” Eb?
It all depends upon if you want to play with other people. If you do, then you will need to use an Eb whistle (or another whistle that plays Eb). You will then need to transpose on the fly - well not really transpose, you will have to use different fingerings than you are used to in order to play the right notes.
If you want to play by yourself, then pick up any whistle and use the same fingering that you would on a D and it will play fine. (an edit here: the second proposition takes into account a transposition to D - whether on the fly or on the paper) This is because the whistle will always have the wholestep, wholestep, halfstep, wholestep, wholestep,wholestep, halfstep configuration between the notes. Music is really about the space between the notes and if that space is the same, then the tune will sound the same even if the initial pitch is different.
MORE EDIT: I reread what I wrote and I don’t think that I made it sound any easier Let’s see if I can change that.
If you have a tune that is written in Eb and the first note is Eb, then on ANY whistle the first note will be played XXX XXX. However, only on an Eb whistle will it be in tune with someone else that is playing that same note on a C instrument.
–folk instruments like whistle are named by the bell note, which is the note when all fingers are down, but orchestrally they are all considered C instruments, because when they play a C it sounds the note C
–orchestral instruments are named by the note they produce when they play a C; play a C on a clarinet and you get a B-flat on the piano, so it’s a B-flat instrument
Now, with that basis, if you’re trying to play a tune in E-flat major, I’d say your best bet is this:
rewrite the tune 1/2 step lower so it’s in D major, and then
play it in D major on an E-flat whistle, and it’ll sound in E-flat major
–James
P.S. I didn’t see Erik’s post before I posted this, so my apologies for duplicate info on the E-flat tune.
). And neither can the guitarist…or the two fiddle players…or the flute player…hey, some of these guys have grade eight music.
. Can’t cope with all this lot, just as I’ve started to get my head around transposition (at long last).
I thought I knew this, but I’m confused now and I think I will go throw up and learn that tune by ear, no matter how many whistles I have to pick up. 