The frequency that corresponds to C is the same regardless of what instrument you play. With that in mind would you PLEASE define what you mean by “play a C on a clarinet?” Because that in conjunction with the rest of you comment makes no sence. Remember, it is the reference that is important.
He means, write a C on a musical staff and play that on a clarinet.
The reason for which can be demonstrated with the tenor and alto sax… the fingerings are nearly identical for these two instruments, but playing the C fingering on both does not yield a C sound on both. This is what is meant by a transposing instrument. The alto must be transposed (ie. in order to play a C, you have to use a different fingering - Bb?, I think.). I believe the etimology for this arises from the fact that it is VERY difficult to learn and associate 1 fingering to different notes. Many folks can transpose X-steps on the fly, but very few that I know can actually have the motor reflexes entirely redefined. It usually goes through a transposition in the persons head. Something like, “Ok, D is a half step below Eb, so x is a half step below y…” but very quickly.
When I think of the letter E, my mind and fingers instantly feel XXXXXO. I don’t even have to think about it (25 years of flute playing later). I cannot do the same thing with a C whistle. If you say E on a C whistle, my neural pathways don’t hit XXXXOO. I can get it, but my mind has to reprogram.
So with our alto, tenor example… I believe that the difference came about because people didn’t want to learn two different fingering constructs. And since the fingering carry over from one branch of instrument to another… sax, clarinet, flute, oboe, etc. all have very similar fingerings, it doesn’t make a lot of sense for the cross instrumentalist to think E on sax = XXXOOO, E on flute = XXXXXO, etc. instead, it is usually transposed on the paper.
This said, I do know some folks that are incredible at transposition and nearly have reprogrammed their pathways to read one thing and play another.
Now, some of this is my own hypothesis so if I’m wrong somewhere, please tell me 
Erik
This is what confuses me (and most others I believe) the most. When I see a note on the page my tendency would be to place my fingers such that that note (the frequency for that note) would be played, irregardless of the fingering required to accomplish this.
The idea of playing a “C” on an insturment and the resulting frequency being for Bb totally baffles me. If middle C is notated, why not make the instrument play that note? That does not sound so unreasonable to me.
I agree totally! But I think to learn it that way at an early age would handicap you to one instrument. Many young students begin on one instrument and switch to another. So, the fingering gets the name, not the note.
Within our history, remember that the tones have not been consistent either. Really only the fingerings have. A440 is a relatively recent standard and it has drifted all over.
I think that we tend to do the same thing on the whistle, though it seems that the XO format has preference. Still, if I’m talking to someone I’ll say, play a D - meaning XXXXXX - even if they’re holding a C whistle.
This is an especially funny thread to me, because I see everything backward from many of you guys. Coming from an orchestral background, I was baffled at first by a D whistle that was concert pitch (meaning that when you play a C on the instrument, it’s a concert C). 
Dana
Check out your flute, though. You really are playing a D instrument but the keys are doing gymanstics for you. The F#, for instance (played XXXOOX on a silver flute) is actually pressing a key further up the flute so that you’re really playing XXXXOO just like the whistle. There are several whistle makers that actually add that lower C note so that the D whistle does play at concert pitch (well, C# really) with this fingering XXXXXX - same as flute. As for the C#, it is the same on the flute - all open (pinkies don’t count 
)
Yup, I agree, but the D on my Boehm flute is also concert D. For someone with an orchestral background, I’d see D on a D flute as being a concert E. There is an Eb flute (pretty obscure nowadays) that plays a concert F when it fingers a D. It all depends on your frame of reference. (So There! 
)
Dana
You lost me 
A D on a D flute plays a concert D, while the Eb flute plays a concert Eb when fingered as a D. Are you using the word concert to mean something other than “played as a piano would sound”?
The reason that I say that a Boehm flute is really a D instrument is that it’s fundamental length is that of a D instrument. This is why low C is played with all the fingers down and the second octave C is played as an open tube. The low C has been added on below the D. So that playing D yields a concert D on a Boehm.
Are we saying the same thing?
Oh wait, are you saying that since we call the flute in orchestral land a C instrument and play a concert D fingering a D, that you would expect a D instrument to play E when fingered D… I’ve got it. Hey, that’s what you did say I’m sorry, I confused myself. While I too am from orchestral land, I’ve come to think of my flute more in terms of the D than the C.
Just shows you why we should correct the naming of the flute as a C instrument. It’s history doesn’t really support this nomenclature. I think that I would prefer the term “concert instrument” as it as well as wood flutes are often referred.
Erik
But I think to learn it that way at an early age would handicap you to one instrument. Many young students begin on one instrument and switch to another. So, the fingering gets the name, not the note.
Not only do many students switch instruments, but certain musicians (mainly saxophonists and clarinetists) are required to be able to play all the instruments in that family. For clarinet, we have as many as 7 different instruments (Bb, A, Eb soprano, C, Eb alto, Bb bass, Eb(?) contrabass), and it is not uncommon in orchestra music to play the first half of the piece in A and the second half in Bb. I even saw a piece once that required the performer to play A, Bb, and Eb clarinets, all in the same work! 
It would be nearly impossible to switch fingerings so quickly like that.
As for figuring out the whole concert pitch thing, I guess we just get used to it. Unless you have perfect pitch, fingering a C and hearing a Bb doesn’t cause an issue.
<----- glad that he doesn’t play clarinet in an orchestra Wow!
I’ll try to explain abt the Bb and Eb instruments thingy. The thing to remember is that wind instruments (I’m not dealing with valve instruments because I don’t know anything about them) come in diff sizes and lengths. That necessarily means that the bell note of diff-length instruments (ie, when all the holes are covered, keys closed) are different. For the sake of simplicity, they take a particular note, usually a few notes above the bell note, and define this note as C fingering. Think of your recorder - when you use your C fingering, there is still one hole below that which is left open. Once they have defined this as C fingering, then they make all the other holes or keys in such a way that the easiest fingering on that instrument will give you the do-re-mi (major) scale where the C-fingering note is the “do” note. Then all the other side keys and more complex fingerings will give you the sharps and flats and notes outside of that do-re-mi scale.
In a way, it’s like the piano keyboard. The C major scale is found on all the white keys, so it’s easiest to play. You just go up and down the white keys. To play do-re-mi scales where the “do” starts on a note other than C, you have to bring in the black keys. Now think what would happen if the white key you have always thought of as the C note on the piano, was actually tuned to a frequency other than C, and all the other notes adjusted accordingly. You would still play a do-re-mi scale on the white keys, and you would be playing the C major scale fingering, but in actual terms, the scale’s starting note is diff.
That what it is with Eb and Bb instruments. You play what is defined as C fingering on that instrument, but the starting note, the “do”, is either Eb or Bb. The way you play a C fingering on such an instrument, is the same as how you get a C on your recorder. In other words, the pinky on the bottom hand gets to cover a hole.
And that’s why whistles are differently described, and it’s easy to get confused. Because of tradition (Irish??), the simplest do-re-mi scale playable on a whistle (cover all the holes, then uncover them one by one, in sequence) is defined as D major or D fingering, not C major. The first note in the sequence starts not on the pinky of the lower hand, but the 4th finger.
When one plays Eb or Bb instruments with C instruments, you have to transpose and play fingering for a key that is diff from the other instruments. So if the real key (frequency) of a tune is Eb major, and you have a Eb instrument, you can play what is defined as C major fingering on your instrument. While all the C instrument players will be playing Eb major fingering on their instruments.
Does that make sense?
The question was: why is the Bb clarinet = C whistle?
The answer is:
When you play the do-re-mi scale on the Bb clarinet such that the lowest note being covered (ie, the starting “do” note) is with your lower 4th finger (which is D major fingering) and not your pinky, the actual starting note you get with your lower 4th finger is C, in absolute frequency terms.
And that’s the definition of a C whistle: play D major fingering, cover all 6 holes, and the starting note you get is C in absolute freq terms.
That means that an Eb instrument = F whistle.
Playing a do-re-mi scale on an Eb instrument where the starting note is sounded by covering the lower 4th finger key/hole rather than the pinky key/hole, gives you F as the starting note in absolute freq terms.
If you know your piano keyboard, it’s like you started your do-re-mi scale on the white key immediately after the C white key, ie, D (and one of the black keys would come into play in the course of playing the do-re-mi scale, to keep everything correct in relative terms, because it’s no longer the “simplest” do-re-mi scale playable on the piano).
Thus, if the C white key had been tuned to Bb in absolute terms, and all other keys on the the keyboard adjusted accordingly, then the white key after that (the D white key) would play C in absolute terms.
If the C white key had been tuned to Eb, the white key immediately after that (the D white key) would be tuned to F in absolute terms.
No–wrong example adding to the confusion.
The standard (soprano or tenor) recorder bell tone (all holes covered) sounds a C* and it’s written down as a C (it also happens to be a “concert C” instrument).
Lift the right pinkie from the bottom of the recorder, and it sounds D.
- (same as a standard concert flute with a C foot, or piccolo)
PS: maybe I should post a table of the main transposing instruments, at least winds since I don’t know the others. Who’d like it?
Yet another complication on the orchestral side is the keys which the players are reading differ by instrument key.
Most arrangements try to keep things in friendly keys where no instrument is reading more than three sharps or three flats at a given time.
So you wind up with your friendliest keys being E-flat, F, and B-flat.
Decent keys are C, G, A-flat, G-flat, A, and B.
Unfriendly keys are D-flat, D, and E.
(Source: “The Complete Idiot’s Guide to Music Theory” by Michael Miller)
–James
[quote=“tuaz”]For the sake of simplicity… Think of your recorder…quote]
NO! Not the r*&)()&*er! 
I am starting to understand a little bit but I am also sure this whole thing is a plot by the Cry()()(???//////////////// Abort transmission/Secutity Viloation A123b/Tracking Bot AB123z initialized and deployed…
I should have clarified that I was using the recorder (in that particular context) as an example, not of whether the C fingering actually sounded an actual C note, but of the fact that the fingering defined as C fingering was not the lowest note you could play on the instrument. Same with saxes. The design was such that there are holes/keys for a few more notes lower than the so-called “C” note. So you couldn’t really refer to the bell note, in identifying the key the instrument was in.
That is unlike standard 6-hole whistles, where the key of the whistle is identified by the bottom-most note (ie, bell note).
Whether a recorder’s C fingering note is an actual C, depends on the type (length) of recorder.
Sorry for the confusion.
Tuaz, I think what Zoob is saying is that the lowest note that a recorder can play IS a C… the bell tone. It can’t go any lower; you run out of fingers to cover holes. The flute’s lowest tone is also most often a C as has been historically the case - even though they make a B foot now.
In both cases TXXXXXX is the C fingering and the lowest note that can be played.
Oops! You’re right. Total faux pas! Shows how rarely I touch or even look at a recorder. For whatever reason I just kept thinking you could play a Bb (fingering) below C, like the sax.