D and C keyed whistle

Whistle
1

Hi,

I’m VERY new at this.
I always wanted to learn playing the flute and finally I now have the time and the willpower to do so :wink:
I bought myself 2 tinwhistles from Clakes. One in C and one in D. Initially I just bought the C, but I found that most tutorials focus on D.
The reason I bought a C was because in the future I would like to play along with a friend of mine on the piano. Now I know, the fingering on both flutes can remain the same if I play a tune, but will this work when I play together with the piano, or will I have to use different finguering then?

Thnx.

2

The D whistle will be in tune with the piano, if you play the notes as written. If you played the C whistle, the pianist would have to transpose a tone lower.

3

If you want to play along with your friend, then it’s going to depend on the key the tune/song is in, how much effort your friend wants to put into it, and how much money you want to spend. :slight_smile:

It’s about the key. A piano can play in any key that a tune may be written in. So if a tune is written in D, then your friend can play on the piano and you can play along on your D whistle. Same if the tune is in C.

If a tune is written in D and you want to play it on your C whistle, then your friend can transpose it and play it in C. But, that’s where the effort comes in. If you want to play in any key other than what the sheet music says, then there’s going to be effort for your friend - unless your doing this with computers or something.

An easier way would be for you to figure out what you and your friend want to play, let your friend play the tunes/songs as written, and you get a whistle in the proper key. You can a full set of Generations for about $30. Or you can just get a few whistles in keys that most of your tunes are in.

Or the easiest would be for you to just play tunes written in D and C. :slight_smile:

Sorry for the length - just killing time before going home.

Jason

4

Ok, I get confused thinking about it :confused:

Suppose The play is in C. How do I play a D on a C whistle? With all holes closed, like on a D-whistle or with the bottom hole open? If the latter, than this means I must “finger” differently on both flutes, or does it?

5

Not sure I understand your question, but I’ll take a stab at it.

You can play virtually any key on any whistle. The problem is that you’ll have to half-hole to get many of the notes.

The normal notes on a C whistle are C, D, E, F, G, A, B and then to the next octave. These are the notes of the C major scale, and make up the key of C.

The normal notes on a D whistle are D, E, F#, G, A, B, C# and then to the next octave. These are the notes of the D major scale, and make up the key of D.

So, if you want to play a tune in the key of D on a C whistle, you’re going to have to half-hole to get the F# and C# - because the C whistle naturally plays F natural and C natural (see above).

Therefore, it’s easier to just play a whistle in the appropriate key for the tune. Because then the notes in the tune will be the notes that the whistle naturally plays.

Hope that helps,
Jason

6

I think the underlying issue here is that you need to know that a whistle in the key of D is actually a non-transposing instrument. So, when you play a D or C# on a D whistle, those notes will be the same as on the piano. If you use any other whistle key, you or the pianist will have to transpose the notes.

Does that help?

Eric

7

I think what I am asking is this:

When I read a note on paper let’s say it’s an E. It’s on the bottomline of the staff.
So on a C-whistle (if the play is in C) I must finger: xxx.xoo
And on a D-whistle (if the play is in D) I must finger: xxx.xxo

And the only way around this different-fingering is by transposing (and thus half-holing or cross-fingering). Have I got it right?

8

As simple as your question sounds to you, I’m still not quite sure I get it. Sorry, I really am trying to help.

Are you new to playing music in general?

Half-holing comes into play when you’re trying to play a note that is not a natural note of the whistle. On a D whistle, the third note is F#. If you want to play a tune thats written in C, then you’ll have to half-hole that F# to get an F natural.

I think that this is becoming overly complicated though.

Play Mary Had a Little Lamb on a D whistle on the bottom three holes. You just played that in the key of D.

If you want to play it in the key of C, get a C whistle. If you want to play it in F, get an F whistle. Trying to play a whistle in the wrong key for a tune can be an exercise in frustration. That’s why they make different keyed whistles.

Now to go a step further, whistles can play in two different keys fairly easily with no half-holing. A D whistle can play in both D and G. There’s only one note that’s different (C natural - OXX OOO).

The thing to keep in mind regarding your question is that E is only one note. You have to consider the key of the tune. In general, the key of the tune is based on a major scale. So, if the tune is made up of notes in the D major scale, then that tune is in the key of D. A D whistle plays these notes automatically, therefore that’s the whistle you’d use for a tune in the key of D.

Maybe that’s where you’re getting tripped up. Don’t look at the individual notes, look at the key of the tune. The key is indicated at the beginning of the sheet music near the treble clef, and is designated by sharps and flats. If you see no sharps or flats, that’s the key of C. If there are two sharps, that’s the key of D.

Do a Google search on music theory for a general introduction to this stuff.

Sorry if you’re beyond all this, but it’s hard to tell from your question.

Hope that helps.

Jason

9

One more quick thing to try to make it simple.

Find out what key the tune is in. You can find explanations of key signatures on the internet.

Use a whistle in that key to play the tune, since it will automatically give you the correct notes.

If you only have whistles in C and D, then find tunes that are written in C and D.

Jason

10

And one last thing for now. Remember that whistles can play in two keys. So your D whistle can play both D and G. Your C whistle can play both C and F.

Jason

11

I’m not entirely new at making music (to answer your question). I used to have music lessons and I do occasionally play the piano.
I get all that you are saying. But maybe I am missing the point.

Let me try it one more time :wink:

When I take some sheetmusic and the play is in D, I get out my D-whistle.
When I take some sheetmusic and the play is in C, I get out my C-whistle.

My question now is this (and I am oversimplifying the issue):

Do I finger the bottom note on the staff (E) the same on both whistles for the above given examples?

12

No. Because on the C whistle, E is actually E sharp. IE: XXX XOO However, on a D whistle that same fingering is F sharp. So with your C whistle, the only way you could get E natural, would be to half-hole the B2 finger. B2 meaning the bottom hand, middle hole: XXX XXO And if you’re new to whistles, that can be a demanding challenge. But, on a D whistle you can very Easily play E natural just by covering all but the very bottom hole. It’s one of those notes this key of whistle is “meant” to play so to speak.

Some tunes on the whistle, you just can’t escape half-holing. The Trip We Took Over The Mountain comes to mind. When played on a D whistle, I believe there’s a G sharp, (or A flat if you prefer) and a F natural all in the same tune. Both notes that the D whistle doesn’t “normally” or easily play. Unless you’re going to be playing music that is other than Irish, in my humble experience, there’s more tunes in Irish music without the need to half-hole, then are the ones that need this special treatment. Although the more I play, the more tunes I keep finding that somewhere need a half-hole, and I don’t mean C natural, I cross-finger that note.

13

Ah, thank you. That answered it.
I’ll stick to my D-whistle then. No point in trying to learn to play 2 instuments at once is there?
I’ll just use the C-whistle when I am playing alone, using the same fingering. I rather like the “eerie” feel the tunes sometimes get from that.

Thank you all.

14

The scale of C does not have sharps or flats so an E on a C whislte is exactly that.

To confuse things, Irish traditional players refer to the notes of the scale, regardless of the key of the whistle, as if they were in the key of D.
So the bottom note is always referred to a ‘D’.

15

Well… C and a D whistle or for that matter any other key of whistle, is one instrument… So, I’m not sure what you meant by there’s no point in learning two instruments… Every key has their spot in music somewhere. So, keep the C, it might come in handy for you later on.

As the other guy said, the whistle is normally a diatontic instrument, meaning it plays the basic “Do Re Me Fah So La Tee Do” notes. But with half-holing and cross-fingering can be made chromatic. And since the whistle is limited to around 15 playable notes, naturally I mean, minus all the cross fingerings and half-holings, and ear piercing-unpleasant 3rd octave notes, one whistle couldn’t possibly play all the music in the world. Thats why they’re made in so many keys. I don’t think there’s a key of whistle that can’t be made by someone.

16

Guess that shows how much I know about music theory… Oh well, I tried.

17

But then you still wouldn’t finger it the same as a D whistle. I guess you just wouldn’t half-hole it like I said.

18

Oh well, thanks for correcting me… Now I know why my brain kept telling me to get my scale chart out… This would explain a few things I was wondering about.

19

OK, now I think I get your question. :slight_smile:

As Peter said, there are no sharps or flats in the C major scale.

If your sheet music is in D, use your D whistle and most or all of the notes should be the regular notes of the whistle, ie. no half-holing. You get that part.

Now, if you want to play that same tune in C, then you just get your C whistle and use the same fingering as you did on your D whistle. The tune is the same, but in the key of C now.

And it goes all ways there. If you learn a tune in the proper key on any whistle, then you can use that same fingering on any other key whistle and the tune will sound right. It’s more about the intervals of the tune than the actual notes, if that helps.

So, say you learn an irish tune in D on your D whistle. If your piano player wants to play that tune, but it’s easier for him/her to play in C, then he/she can play in C. You would then pick up your C whistle and use the exact same fingering as you did on your D whistle and you’ll be good.

Does that help?

Jason

20

Depends on how you look at it: if you want an E in the absolute sense you wouldn’t, if you look at the scale of the whistle as a transposing instrument (i.e. refer to your bottom note as ‘D’ regardless of the actual key)you play your tune exactly the same only it will sound in a different key.

The C&F guide to whistle keys may shed some light