I’m learning music as I learn to play the flute, so this question will sound very basic.
A standard D flute is used most often in ITM, and I’ve seen Eb, Bb and A flutes. Why aren’t there any C flutes? Is it just because the other keys lend themselves to ITM? I’ve found several pieces of music (not ITM) that would’ve been pretty easy to play but they went one note lower than I can pull off with my D flute. I can certainly move them up an octave but then I feel like I’m working mostly in the upper octave which doesn’t provide the mellow lower range that I enjoy.
A simple system flute in D is the same flute that is the orchestral flute in C.
The lower notes were originally there; like the modern Boehm-system orchestral flute, the 8-key simple system flute (which is the original for the modern “Irish” flute) started its range at middle C.
Some modern flutes are made with fewer keys or keyless, and so their lowest note is D.
As to how to handle the low C / C-sharp, depending on the tune, sometimes you can play it up an octave, sometimes you may can play an E or F-sharp instead, sometimes you may can just drop it from the tune, or you may be able to roll or crann the note that comes before it…there are many ways to handle this, and which you might use is a matter both of personal choice and of the structure of the tune.
You should also be aware there are Irish flutes in C. These are not in concert C; they play one whole step lower than a C instrument.
If you want to play that low C note, you will need either a keyed flute, usually with a C and C# key, or else you will want a flute that is actually in the key of C, not like the concert flutes that are in the key of D but called C flutes because they can play the low C note. Does that explain it better?
If you’ve seen D flutes with two extra holes at the end that you couldn’t possibly reach with your fingers it might make more sense. The D flute is long enough to be a C flute, but it has to have keys to cover those holes in order to reach the C and C# below D. Without the keys, the lowest note is D.
I have a silver flute like people play in orchestras. The fingering is almost the same as my D Irish flute. To play the low C and press a lever with my pinky finger. On my D Irish flute my pinky finger does nothing because there are no levers.
As I go up the scale on both flutes, the notes are the same, except that the F is natural on the silver flute and sharp on the D flute. On my silver flute I can play the C natural with either a key or using OXXOOO fingering just like on my Irish flute. It doesn’t sound all that great but it works. (I’m probably supposed to use OXOXXX on my Irish flute but I’m too used to the other way).
So basically, the Irish D flute is a C flute, and the silver C flute is a D flute. In fact, the silver C flute can have a B foot put on and go down to low B. It’s just yet another lever for your pinky. But that does not make it a B flute.
Does that help make a little more sense that a C flute would actually be a Bb?
A Boehm flute has, almost the same fingering as the Irish D flute. The fingering XXX OOO is called G by the player and sounds the same as a G on a piano.
The fingering XXX OOO on a tenor sax is called G by the player and sounds the same as a F on a piano.
It is called a transposing instrument.
The onus of keeping it straight falls to the composer/arranger/conductor and not the player. Their music says play a G here and they play XXX OOO. Still an F…
In the folk world there isn’t anyone else to fob off the onus on but the player.
Thanks everyone for the helpful information. At first I started to get a bit lost, but the combination of the posts made it more clear. Do the following statements seem true?
My D flute is really a C flute but it lacks the capability to play the C (being keyless)
A keyed D flute would be able to play the C/C#
A Bb would be able to play the C/C#. All holes closed (playing a D on paper, would actually sound a C.
If my Boehm flute were here with me right now, I could pull of that C/C# because of it’s keys.
While confusing to people new to simple system flutes, Peeplj is technically correct: a D flute is really a C instrument… so why do we call it a D flute? Because when you start with all the holes covered and progressively lift each finger you play a D scale. The so called “C” flute plays the C scale and so on. We systemize these instruments based on what scale it plays without keys or cross fingering - not on its’ true intonation.
It’s just two different naming systems. Irish instruments are called after the “six finger note” , the “bell note” disregarding any openstanding keys which extend the range downward. So for Irish whistles and flutes, finger:
xxx xxx
and that note is what the thing is called.
Modern orchestral flutes are called by the thumb note (Boehm introduced a key on the back operated by the thumb for C). I don’t know how to clearly show Boehm flute fingering with the keyboard, but imagine:
x(o)oo ooo(o)
in other words the top index finger down but everything else open, even the pinkie holding it’s E flat key open. Whatever that note is on a Boehm flute, that’s what it’s called.
So:
Irish=Boehm
D=C
Eflat=Dflat(they do make D flat Boehm flutes)
A=G
etc etc
Saxophones are named similary to Boehm flutes, but since there’s no thumbhole the same note is fingered:
oxo ooo
so whatever that note is in the low register, that’s what the sax is called. Clarinets are named after the “three finger note” viz:
xxx ooo
whatever that note is in the low register that’s what it’s called.
So, a C Boehm flute = D Irish flute/whistle/pipes=C (melody) sax=G clarinet (they do make them). On all of these xxx xxx is D and xxx xxo is E and xxx ooo is G etc etc.
Sounds like ya’ll have everything down pretty well except for modern concert (orchestral) pitch.
In the modern convention, you finger a “C” on the instrument and then name the instrument for what note on the piano it plays, no matter what fingering system it uses or what the bell note is.
In the folk convention for (mainly diatonic) instruments, you name the instrument by the diatonic scale that it plays; a D flute is a D flute because without any cross-fingerings, it plays a D scale.
An Irish flute in D is a concert C instrument, because when you play a “C” on the flute it matches the “C” on the piano.
Edited to add: there’s a pretty good page on this here.
The reason I introduced all of this complexity into this thread is because I wanted the OP to know that you can get a “C” flute but it’s not useful in most sessions because it plays one whole step below the common session flute, and I wanted them to know why.
Different conventions can be very confusing, especially for us older folk. When I was in Ireland last summer, it was clear to me that people were driving on the wrong side of the road. There is no way that I would rent a car and try to drive on the left-hand side of the road. I would probably kill myself or someone else. That is the time to set back in your seat on the coach and let the experienced driver do the driving.
Yes, but you a doing the same thing that James was doing in his first post, big grin , using both naming conventions without differentiation.
Well, I’ll admit the way I worded one of the posts may have been a touch on the silly side.
Seriously, though: these terms get used in conversation without anyone specifying which convention they are using.
You are expected to be able to know from the context of the conversation.
Pretty much a good rule of thumb is that if you are talking band or orchestra, you are using the “concert pitch” convention; i.e. naming an instrument by what note on the piano it plays when it thinks it is playing C.
If you are talking folk or trad instruments, you are usually talking about the diatonic scale that the instrument plays.
And yes, it is a bit confusing. You have a D flute that’s really a C flute and a C flute really isn’t a D flute but in B-flat…you also have B-flat flutes but they aren’t in C or D…it’s enough to make you either stop your drinking or get started!
