do ya have to take 'em apart first or do they come big enough to fit over his head?
In my case, that’s pretty darn big.
I don’t believe I’ve ever seen one neck sized, let alone!
Do ya need a linebacker to run the screwdriver?
this might be helpful…
a demonstration that the simple act of wrapping thread around a tenon causes the inner diameter to shrink should be fairly easy to simulate. do it in sections. tie a 700g weight to one end of the thread and wrap the other end around a tenon size spool and hold the spool up so the weight dangles and tenses the thread (700g tension is now on the thread), wrap the thread turn by turn until the weighted end has been wrapped up to the spool and then release the weight and tie off the thread. spool another section of thread the same way, and continue this process until you get enough thread wrapped around the spool to shrink its inner diameter. i think it’s a better way to prove/disprove the claim than throwing numbers at each other.
it’s great to classify shrunken diameters as minimum or strangled etc, but that is not data collection supporting external compressive forces. because it seems zero have actually been found and documented. it’s probably more scientific and useful to measure external compressive forces that cause shrinkages, if in fact that happens.
Ahem! If you are addressing the “control” issue this confession is little assistance (and not because it doesn’t support my speculation but more because it does not properly challenge it).
- upright standing assists drainage - the moisture has to linger long enough in the tenon and socket gap for it seep ino the the rim end.
- the test doesn;t cover sufficient period of time.
A BETTER TEST IS DETAILED IN THE NEXT POST (
It seems obvious now that 2,000 loops of string wrapped directly one on top of another could make literally a ton of force underneath. But spread out over a tenon is much more modest, as in under 20lb.
So of course now let us completely ignore the numbers …
A
- Make a one piece D size wooden tube (no joints, tenons etc) AND no cork, mouthole, endcap or toneholes needed.
2.1 Tie a load of thread at about the point it would be if the thing had a tenon and tie it SUPER TIGHT or
2.2 Tie the thread as in 2.1 BUT thin the wood where you are going to tie it so that you are tying it onto wood as thin as tenon. - run water through the flute twice a day for 1 year and store the flute NOT on a stand but leave it on its side, making sure you rotate the side from day to day
B
- make another D size wooden tube with socket and threaded tenon BUT no cork, mouthhole, endcap or toneholes needed
- Tie the thread SUPER TIGHT.
- AS for A3 above.
In the mean time ask the mods to lock this topic for 13 months.
When the topic opens again have your report ready.
I will NOT expect praise if I am right or even half right
and nor will I countenance insults and abuse if I am wrong
because, as you all know,
I participate here in the spirit of FREE thought.
By all means let’s participate in a forum based on FREE thought, and let’s never let mere facts get in the way.
Good free thought does not challenge good facts
but bad or premature conclusions.
There are a lot of good facts and irrebuttable experiences recorded in this topic
that go towards and against various positions.
My light attempts in this topic go to a speculation driven suggestion seeking to reconcile
the facts and experience that are currently feeding opposing positions.
If my speculation is correct, then none of the facts and experiences (currently in opposing streams) will be in the way.
Your cheap little quip is really quite NON SEQUITUR to my suggestion. Not relevant and not applicable.
George, I did not advocate stopping using numbers, just meaningless and unhelpful speculative ones. Lets save the number-crunching until we have real, observed and measured figures..
Winding by hand (no lathe) it takes a second or so per turn. 2000 turns would take half an hour and need about 460 feet of thread [crossing- jem, how does that sound to you ?]
I don’t think there are that many turns. But the calculation is still correct - the breaking strain and elasticity of the thread are such that it can apply, or withstand if the wood swells, far more pressure than is healthy for a piece of wood.
Is still think winding tension is a red herring. Wood swelling and/or thread shrinkage sound more likely to me. Thread can be an ‘immovable object’.
Hey guys! The topic might be locked for 13 months soon if Terry conducts an experiment?
So can you rein in your obsessive quest to be right until this matter is decided?
I’ll have you know that was one of my dearest quips.
[sniff]
By doing some basic “number-crunching” you can see that the people taking the position of extreme pressure being applied are out to lunch by a mile, that’s not meaningless or speculative.
You said before you didn’t doubt the basic formula. Clearing up the wildly different results then is a good thing and this thread can withstand a few posts walking through it.
I thought it rather odd that you would suggest taking up something that is a long standing tradition… 
READERS may have noted that the above post has 5 paragraphs which could be seen as analogous to five sections of the head and torso of a person, namely the face, the chest, the heart, the stomach and the bottom end.
Typically, so far, certain members here have confined their engagement with it to the bottom end.
Nothing personal, Tal, but I’m calling you out:
What exactly was the irrebuttable experience AGAINST the position that thread tension can damage a tenon? You say it’s here somewhere, so let’s see it.
Rob
I decided not to follow this thread. I just checked in to see if anything interesting had been said since the initial post. Judging by the last few comments, I don’t think I missed much. Just the usual inane blather and lame attempts at humor.
The good thing for Terry is that his name was kept in play for nearly two weeks now. Way to go, Terry.
@Rob, experiences cannot be rebutted for they have subjective validity.