I was just looking at some back threads dealing with blues whistle, and I have an additional question regarding this subject:
I know that blues harmonica players use a harp in a key other than the one they’re playing in. In my limited dabblings I’ve noticed that the D whistle does a nice job for E blues, since it allows me to play the pentatonic blues scale. Is this standard practice for blues whistle (if there is such a thing as standard practice for blues whistle)? Also, what would you consider the, say, 3 essential whistles (keys, not brands) to own for blues whistling?
Micah
Micah -
Check your private messages.
I guess there isn’t standard
practice, yet. The whistles
I use most are D, A,
and Bb. We’re breakin
new ground here, guy!
Playing the Blues on the whistle is one of my favorite things. I generally just use my D whistle to play the Blues in E. I really enjoy this as I used to play sax in an R&B band and it brings back old times.
Enjoy the experimenting!
Sandy
I’ve found two useful blues keys per whistle—the five hole start you mention and the two hole start. That’s E and A on a D whistle. There’s a difficulty in principle which makes blues playing a challenge. The minor pentatonic blues scale is easily accessible in both those keys. Now the choices begin. Some blues players make a lot of use of the major pentatonic scale, blending it with the minor. That means you’d want the major 2nd, 3rd and 6th as well as the notes you already have. The two hole start might be best for tunes that require major pentatonic stuff. Finally, a sophisticated blues player will make use of the flattened 5th as well. This is easier to get with a five hole start.
Don’t worry if the blue notes—flattened seventh, third and fifth—aren’t bang in tune; it just adds to the bluesiness if they aren’t. It isn’t helpful to think about cross-harp techniques in relation to the whistle—cross harp works largely because notes can be bent down a full semitone with ease. This can’t be done with the same facility on whistle. Of course, smears can be accomplished all over the place and you will soon figure out what sounds good.
As far as keys go, it depends on who you plan to play with. Accoustic guitarists often favour A and E, so a D whistle is fine. Horn players like Bb, F and Eb which would make an Eb whistle handy and possibly and Ab. (You can work out which other ones would be appropriate.) G and D are other popular keys. F and G whistles would also be good choices. Often the choice is determined by what’s comfortable for a singer.
I hope this helps.
[ This Message was edited by: Wombat on 2002-11-10 23:15 ]
Please, tell what is the pentatonic blues scale ?
I guess from this thread it can’t go simply
DEGAB(D), so…
Pantatonic blues scales
D
D - F - G - Ab - A - C - D
G
G - Bb - C - Db - D - F - G
C
C - Eb - F - Gb - G - Bb - C
A
A - C - D - Eb - E - G - A
Eb
Eb - Gb - Ab - A - Bb - Db - Eb
Bb
Bb - Db - Eb - E - F - Ab - Bb
F
F - Ab - Bb - B - C - Eb - F
HTH
No whistles were harmed in the transmission of this communication.
[ This Message was edited by: Easily_Deluded_Fool on 2002-11-12 03:31 ]
Thanks so much.
I may be a heavy fool but why is it called pentatonic, when it seems hexatonic ? 
BbZH
[ This Message was edited by: Zubivka on 2002-11-12 04:28 ]
On 2002-11-12 04:26, Zubivka wrote:
Thanks so much.I may be a heavy fool but why is it called pentatonic, when it seems hexatonic ? >
BbZH
[ This Message was edited by: Zubivka on 2002-11-12 04:28 ]
Actually, most folks I know don’t call it the pentatonic blues scale, just the blues scale. Some of the confusion is probably because the blues scale is basically a minor pentatonic with an added diminished fifth. Of course there are other “blues” scales, too. But that’s probably the most common.
John
On 2002-11-12 08:59, OutOfBreath wrote:
Actually, most folks I know don’t call it the pentatonic blues scale, just the blues scale. Some of the confusion is probably because the blues scale is basically a minor pentatonic with an added diminished fifth. Of course there are other “blues” scales, too. But that’s probably the most common.
Thanks!
This is really interesting! Like adding a tone, sensitive both ways, in the middle of the scale.
What other scales would be refered to as Blues ?
My baby got run over by a steamroller,
She don’t come round my bed no mo..
My baby got run over by a steamroller,
She don’t come round my bed no mo…
When I try to put my arms around her
She slithers out under the door…
Break—
Used to be when I’d look at you, baby,
I’d get feelings like a beast!
Now when you wrap yourself around me
You go round twenty-seven times at least.
Woo Woo..
Baby, why didn’t you watch that roller ride?
You know I keep tryin to talk it over
But your face is always somewhere
round the other side.
Took my baby down to the service station
I tried to pump her up with air.
Took my baby down to the service station,
Great God I tried to pump her up with air!
Now she looks like a whitewall tire,
With long red silky hair…
Whistle, whistle, fading out…
Jim,
If you’re going to do that, you’ll need a proper blues name like Blind Lemon Jefferson.
Blues names are constructed as follows:
- Physical infirmity
- Name of a fruit
- Last name of a president
Mike
(aka Reflux Apricot Nixon)
Geriatric Jackfruit Jimmy!
Da hunny drippin geezer…
Thanks for the blues scales!
Since my baby got run over by a steamroller,
I don’t know what to say.
Since my baby got run over by a steamroller,
Lord I donno what to say.
Guess I can use her for a blanket in
the evening,
Sure make a fine bookmark by day!
…heartbreakingly beautiful
blues whistle solo, fading out…
B_b_ig B_b_ill B_b_roonzy
[ This Message was edited by: Zubivka on 2002-11-12 16:50 ]
On 2002-11-12 09:35, Zubivka wrote:
On 2002-11-12 08:59, OutOfBreath wrote:
…Of course there are other “blues” scales, too. But that’s probably the most common.
…What other scales would be refered to as Blues ?
I believe this question hasn’t been answered yet, OOB…I’d be interested in the answer myself. Thanks!
I believe this question hasn’t been answered yet, OOB…I’d be interested in the answer myself. Thanks!
You’re right, it hasn’t been. I mentioned the major pentatonic blues scale earlier. It consists of the 1st, major 2nd, major 3rd, fifth and major 6th steps in a major scale. So, in D, that would be D, E, F#, A, B. (You can easily work it out for other keys by taking this as an example and making the corresponding adjustments to the minor pentatonic scales given earlier.)
It’s just downright misleading to speak of the blues scale as the minor pentatonic plus flattened fifth. Major seconds, thirds and sixths get used very frequently. Fragments of blues melody might be wholly major pentatonic—some very famous passages in Freddy King’s well-known ‘Hidaway’, for example. Other fragments will be wholly minor pentatonic. Mostly there is a mix, often with a lot of chromatic movement between minor third and fifth—listen to any (stylistically) post T-bone Walker blues guitarist. Boogie piano base lines play off major against minor and use chromatic figures with great variety.
Finding a key that makes both major and minor pentatonic scales plus flattened fifth easy can’t really be fully achieved on whistle but you will only have a couple of awkward half-holing problems if you follow my advice about keys in my earlier post.
Thanks to those who have posted for the useful info. As Wombat mentioned, post T-Bone electric blues solos have become much more chromatic, with a lot of mode mixing going on. But what about Delta blues (which is where I think a whistle might fit best)? Listening to Robert Johnson, Son House, and some newer Delta-style players, I hear more major sounds than minor ones, at least as far a solos go. Not that it’s never used, but to me, the minor pentatonic sounds almost too ‘rocky’ when played with this older form of music. Is the major pentatonic the more prevalent sound in Delta blues? And then, to return to my original question, would one want to play ‘cross-whistle’ (D whistle for E blues, etc.)? Wouldn’t one stick to the whistle in the key the song is in?
Micah
On 2002-11-12 22:12, Micah wrote:
Thanks to those who have posted for the useful info. As Wombat mentioned, post T-Bone electric blues solos have become much more chromatic, with a lot of mode mixing going on. But what about Delta blues (which is where I think a whistle might fit best)? Listening to Robert Johnson, Son House, and some newer Delta-style players, I hear more major sounds than minor ones, at least as far a solos go. Not that it’s never used, but to me, the minor pentatonic sounds almost too ‘rocky’ when played with this older form of music. Is the major pentatonic the more prevalent sound in Delta blues? And then, to return to my original question, would one want to play ‘cross-whistle’ (D whistle for E blues, etc.)? Wouldn’t one stick to the whistle in the key the song is in?
Micah
You’re right. That’s why I called one of the earlier posts misleading. In older forms, rural and urban, the major pentatonic would be used mostly, accompanied by occasional blue notes—flatted sevenths and thirds mostly. They’re still there, but often as something incidental to melody rather than right at the heart of it. But Robert Johnson used some very advanced harmonies in places and there is a lot of chromatic chordal movement going on, especially at the end of verses—this didn’t start with T-bone Walker. What he and others did in the '40’s was to add some characteristic be-bop devices to a blues vocabulary that was already more sophisticated than most realise.
Delta guitarists often (mostly?) use open tunings—open major tunings. All chordal work with slide in a tuning like this will have a major feel. Well, there are exceptions. Skip James used an open minor tuning but his approach wasn’t copied and he wouldn’t (and didn’t) have had any difficulty playing predominently major blues.
For blues that are mostly major pentatonic but which use the flattened seventh, play in D or A on a D whistle. Just muck about to see which is most comfortable. If you need the flattened third as well, you might need to play in A. Playing in E would make the major 3rd a nightmare unless you can cross finger. this note does need to be bang on—it’s not a blues note.
[ This Message was edited by: Wombat on 2002-11-12 22:39 ]
On 2002-11-12 09:35, Zubivka wrote:
What other scales would be refered to as Blues ?
There’s a number of them. One that’s fairly popular is adding a major third to the aforementioned blues scale. This gets you back to a diatonic scale but not the ones we’re most familiar with. This scale has a less “rock” sound than the blues scale mentioned above (probably because it’s getting even further from the pentatonic, and pentatonic scales are staple in rock music). Anyway, this scale with the added third is sometimes called the delta blues scale (not to be confused with Peavey’s Delta Blues amp, which I would love to have…)
John
Thanks Wombat for the detailed information on the major pentatonic - I’m sure it will be informative to many posters here. My question, however, was directed to OutOfBreath (hence the OOB in my post), since you had already mentioned the major pentatonic in a previous post.
OOB, in your post you state that there are many different blues scales…I’d be interested to hear about some of these. To my mind, a ‘pure’ blues scale, i.e. minor pentatonic, with a major 3rd added is just an embellished blues scale - listen to a wide range of blues singers, i.e. Memphis Slim, Bessie Smith et al and they waver or ‘bend’ between the minor & major third; that’s what makes it ‘bluesy’. Guitar players certainly do this - the trick is not to always hit smack on the minor 3rd (though this is not precluded) but rather to tease between the minor & major 3rd.
Google didn’t return a single hit on the term ‘Delta blues scale’. So, I’d love to hear more about these other blues scales since information seems to be lacking.
Great thread BTW.