I’m just curious.
People say that the inexpensive whistles really dominate the Tinwhistle world. Yet, whenever you go to a site that has whistle sound clips, the majority, (and when I say majority, I mean at least 95%) of them are the expensive whistles… I rarely see sound clips of whistles like Clarkes, Feadogs, Generations, Clares, Walton’s, ect.
Why is this??
Maybe the people who have been playing enough to warrant buying the more expensive ones are more confident about their abilities and are more likely to post clips.
Maybe… I just find it odd, you know?
I recorded our first album using a $10
Clarke original, because I didn’t know
about Chiff & Fipple or that any other
kinds were available. After the Clarkes dried out so in Nevada and physically fell apart, I found this site and started
studying the subject.
So I picked a new whistle that cost $90
as it was made of PVC and WOULDN’T fall apart in our constant 15% humidity.
It also sounded 100% better. I was shocked,
as I loved the Clarke sound.
I would think that the other more expensive ones sound better too, so eventually
people tend to get better-sounding ones.
That is a curious question tho!
Lolly
[ This Message was edited by: lollycross on 2002-07-22 15:15 ]
They (people who record) are also cognitively and economically techie enough to so post. I work with computers but I am still catching up to this particular technology. But the same drive and $$ that got me my G4 and mics made me want to get a Burke, which I will record with.
It’s too much trouble/money for some people who settle for simpler things in life or have differing priorities.
No value judgement either way implied.
http://fingertrip.net/whistle/index.html
Mick Woodruff has posted some great clips on his site…the whistle he’s playing is pictured next to the download…you’ll see a few cheapies there!
Elf,
I’d be curious to know what sites you are referring to. Personally, I play Generations almost exclusively, with a Clare thrown in the mix. I’ve tried high-end whistles and own a few, but don’t play them. I’ve been playing for about 7 years and find it comes down to personal choice and what characteristics you want in your whistle. Some of my friends play only Gens, Oaks, etc. and some play only Abells, Copelands, etc. I don’t think years at the whistle makes you decide to buy “up”. I’ve known people who have played for just a few months go out and buy high-priced. For me, a higher priced whistle didn’t change my playing or how I sounded. Some people say they’re better on expensive whistles. Go figure.
Teri
Weekenders makes a very good point.
I had an epiphany last week along these lines. I got hold of just about the most expensive sop D whistle out there and returned it to the maker. I found out the sound I am looking for most likely can be made only on a much cheaper whistle. I am relieved that that is the sound I am looking for.
Teri,
Didn’t you notice that the tone sounded
better on a more expensive one? I like a
LITTLE chiff but not as weak a sound some of the cheap ones have. Also, some of the cheap ones are so out-of-tune and squeeky
and “hard” sounding…like bad tin, or
something, ha ha I can’t expalin it, but then it could be the recordings too, that just don’t do them justice. Maybe the kind of stuff I play just has to have a more “mello” sound, then what lots of people
need. THat is great that you can get by
without needing the expensive ones i.e.
running over them, sitting on them, etc. and all the other horror stories we’ve read, ha ha.
Lolly
I have a theory. I think some folks need to be “justified” that whistle is a real instrument. So they go out and buy a super duper whistle(this is also related to bodhran inferiority complex, but they really do have something to feel inferior about!)
when a cheapie would do just fine.
I’ve got a Copeland(and had a Schultz,which is R.I.P.-dogs ate it)but I use an Eb Gen. So what do y’all think?
Suddenly I’m not sure which side of this argument I’m on any more.
I suspect that a lot of the people who play cheapos are too busy enjoying themselves just playing the darned things to be bothered obsessing online about the technicalities. People who are fascinated by things like gigabytes and zigahertz, on the other hand, are more likely to be equipment freaks and let their interest in one domain spill over into the other. They are more likely to be driven by the urge to upgrade, and also know how to do sound clips an’ stuff.
Less than a year ago I was happily chugging away on the pipes and occasionally the whistle (Cillian O Briain tweak). I tried a low whistle once, couldn’t get a sound out of it and decided it wasn’t for me.
Then I stumbled into C&F, discovered chiff and WhOA and all those other unspeakable diseases, and have at last succumbed. I don’t know whether it was the rave reviews or the offer of a free Doolin D that I simply don’t need, but I’ve just ordered a Dixon tuneable low from Dave at Shannaquay. Waaaaaaaaaaaah!
My name is Roger and I’m a WhOAholic.
On 2002-07-22 19:35, Roger O’Keeffe wrote:
Suddenly I’m not sure which side of this argument I’m on any more.I suspect that a lot of the people who play cheapos are too busy enjoying themselves just playing the darned things to be bothered obsessing online about the technicalities. People who are fascinated by things like gigabytes and zigahertz, on the other hand, are more likely to be equipment freaks and let their interest in one domain spill over into the other. They are more likely to be driven by the urge to upgrade, and also know how to do sound clips an’ stuff.
Got you there Roger,
We just upgraded our 2 computers to Pentium III and Pentium IV, new motherboards, new video cards (Asis V8440) , new Sound Blaster Audigy Platn’m ex, new hard drives, etc. We do this every couple years. I post semi-regularly to Clips 'n Snips (I own the page and Tony is the gracious webmaster) and I still play only Gens 
Teri
[ This Message was edited by: teri-K on 2002-07-22 19:48 ]
I’m one of those people who started on an “expensive” whistle ($60 Water Weasel). More or less – I’d tried starting to play whistle three times before, on cheap whistles, and they just frustrated me. I discovered the C&F, said what the heck, might as well try again with a good whistle, and I’ve been playing fanatically ever since.
It seems like most people around here I see play a Weasel, a Burke, an O’Riordan, or a Susato; usually people play two or three types from that list. And why not? They play well, they sound good, and by no sane standard are they expensive.
I hear all these tales about the wonders of dirt cheap whistles, but I’ve never played on one I’d consider switching to. Every now and then WhOA strikes and I buy another, and I’m invariably disappointed.
On 2002-07-22 19:04, lollycross wrote:
Teri,
Didn’t you notice that the tone sounded
better on a more expensive one? I like a
LITTLE chiff but not as weak a sound some of the cheap ones have. Also, some of the cheap ones are so out-of-tune and squeeky
and “hard” sounding…like bad tin, or
something,
Lolly, have you ever heard any of the Micho Russell CD’s? His whistle squeaks and squawks in the upper octave, but he wasn’t ashamed to make many, many recordings with it. I was captivated by his mastery of the music, and instead of detracting because it doesn’t sound like a Burke, it adds the flavor of authentic Ireland in all its old world beauty. I guess it depends on your view of life. I’m after the Irish experience, and listening to Micho’s less-than-pure tone, I can smell the Jameson.
Until last week I had only played cheapies…I’ve had good fun with many of them, but never found one that really did it for me in terms of tone and playability and especially intonation. I have a Feadog D that plays a B-flat instead of a high B! Ouch! I now own a Burke, which I love.
While I like the idea of being able to buy a viable instrument for less than $10, I think that by the time that one finds a really good one, one has the collected funds for a handmade whistle, which is more than likely going to be a good instrument.
If one looks at the prices of other instruments–violins, flutes, guitars–and then considers that one can get a top-flight whistle for a hundred bucks or so, even the high end whistles are no longer so expensive when put into this kind of perspective. And I think the quality of workmanship and product consistency makes buying a handmade whistle worthwhile.
Of course, tonal preferences is a whole 'nother issue, and it’s true that the cheapies and expensive whistles have a different sound, both with their own perks.
Roger O’Keeffe Writes:
I suspect that a lot of the people who play cheapos are too busy enjoying themselves just playing the darned things to be bothered obsessing online about the technicalities.
You’re probably right. I’m one of those “die-hard cheapie fans,” and I’d like to record, but my mic is broken, and possibly my recording software, and not enough $$ to fix it… sigh Otherwise, I know I’d be posting lots of clips of my fav. Clarkes and Doolin, ect.
I also forget who said this, but it could be an “inferiority” thing… maybe… but then again, maybe not…
sigh
I guess we’ll probably never know the exact answer. It probably just comes down to personal preference. Plain and Simple.
Nothing new, probably, but:
When you consider the amount of appreciation spent on the finer whistles at this Forum, it is only natural that an “anti-” attitude would develop, where people celebrated the glories of their cheap whistle, because, ha-ha, they don’t NEED no stinkin fancy whistles. In that vein, I am also sometimes put off a bit by the “waiting-list” whistles, because I had experience in the classical guitar world, where amateurs swelled the waiting lists of the builders of the day, almost in a capricious manner, while other builders were putting out comparable instruments.
I don’t like waiting lists but I do understand supply and demand. This becomes a consumer issue more than a musical issue.
In that vein, I think this Forum is somewhat dominated by Americans, who are open-minded to the possibilities a consumer society prepares one for, as well as graced with a tradition of garage tinkerers, who have evolved the design. The old better mousetrap, if you will. Both the Weasels and Burkes, from the Midwest, are as American as apple pie to me, and I celebrate these handy guys who have decided that, heck, they can make one of those things. Get out the calipers, the lathe, and the oscilloscope! And we’re all the better for their labors. And I know there are great Brit whistles, but who pioneered o-rings, perturbed bores and water-supply pipe?
But the anti-fancy whistle ethos is reinforced by the masters accomplishments on cheap whistles and that sense that you are more of an “insider” if you play a cheapie. The very existence of O’Briain “improved” whistles proves that. People want to be “seen” with a cheap whistle (so they’ll look like Paddy O’Famous), yet want the qualities that a good artisan can develop with observation, science and aesthetics. That’s proof of “proletarian chic” right there, though, heck, having never played an OBriain, maybe I’ll like it better than the Burke and feel more “authenticky.”
Seriously, don’t you all wonder why Gen or Feadog doesn’t just stop making cavities in their fipples??? Playing with epoxy and guitar pix at the risk of wreckin a whistle is just silly to me, tho’ I understand the reasoning and the desire.
A typically-Weekender sidebar is that in the 16th century, many lutenists also built their own lutes. Seems like some of us just can’t play a whistle, we have to tweak it too! Becomes a personal statment beyond your musical expression. it’s a cool idea to make and play your own instrument.
I understand the point about Micho and his cheap whistle. It’s in perspective of the folk music that it represents. But once again (see other threads I have yakked on) the influence of recording rears its head, for better or worse.
The first time I heard Joanie Madden, I was struck by what a pure sweet whistle sound she had compared to my Feadogs. She wasn’t playing a cheapie on that record, I think. Now I have that sound in my head, especially on the first tune I tried to copy (Madame Bonaparte fwiw).Pandora’s box is open on this one.
Also, I have played fine other types of instruments (and sold them as well) and know the difference. That’s my story, others have theirs.
Everybody has their comfort zone, taste zone, sense of social placement (stated, inferred or lived). Respect mine and I respect yours. The Burke is velvety and sweet, yet some on this Forum hunger for more and spend about $200 more. To me, its odd to want an ebony or other wood whistle. To others, a $100 whistle is anti-thetical to folk music.
But to those who love them and want them, my respects. And to those who wish to hold themself to the qualities and limitations of a Gen, respect to you as well.
We’re all o-kay and anybody that doesn;t agree is a snot.
[ This Message was edited by: The Weekenders on 2002-07-22 22:27 ]
Wow. Interesting insight!
In my opinion, I can hardly see why anyone would want to spend over $100 on a whistle?? But then again, I’m a “die-hard cheapie-fan,” even though I am an American… Loyal to my Clarkes, Doolin, and Feadog. But that also may stem from the fact that I saved my money and bought a whistle that would be in the ‘Expensive’ category, and I was sadly dissapointed… it was horribly out of tune, and adjusting the headjoint/tuning slide made it worse, not better.
However, there is some ‘allure’ to the inexpensive brands… the fact that these are the types of whistles the greats learned to play on and were made great on… The idea that you can take a cheapie with you anywhere and that if it gets stolen, broken, or mangled in any way, you are not out a fortune… you can simply stop at the next music store you come to and probably find another one like it for pocket change.
Interesting concept.
On 2002-07-22 21:53, The Whistling Elf wrote:
The idea that you can take a cheapie with you anywhere and that if it gets stolen, broken, or mangled in any way, you are not out a fortune… you can simply stop at the next music store you come to and probably find another one like it for pocket change.
Elf, after having worried to death about my $6000 classical guitar for all these years, I was VERY reluctant to get a fancy-pants whistle. I loved the exact idea as you quoted.
It’s been so liberating to have a portable whistle that I could either leave in the car or carry, whose glue won;t melt in the sun, or whose wood won;t crack in the cold or be damaged by spilled drinks. Cl. guitarists are already nervous nellies because they are on a musical island off the main continent, have to maintain long fingernails and worry about their dang guitar all the time. It sucks.
And I know that I wouldn;t get laughed out of Ireland for a Feadog (just for my playing as it should be ! ) whereas I might be “too loud,” on an alPro as stated in a thread about two months ago and draw unwanted attention.
But still, I can guard the Burke and for $110, what’s the big deal? That’s the going rate for dinner for three and a bottle of wine around here (Bay Area) in most restaurants.
It’s still cheap and I am not wealthy. And the Feadog sounds shrill and raspy to me.But I respect your tastes Teryk and hope the feeling is mutual.
On 2002-07-22 21:46, The Weekenders wrote:
To others, a $100 whistle is anti-thetical to folk music.
I recognize this isn’t a position you’re espousing – this reply isn’t directed at you (so to speak). But to me, this suggested attitude seems like sheer lunacy:
– The mass-produced machine-made instrument is a folk instrument, but the individually hand-crafted whistle isn’t?
– Can you imagine a $100 “price ceiling” applying to any other common Irish instrument? (“Look at that fiddler putting on airs – he’s playing a $150 instrument.” Yeah, right.)
Any halfway decent flute or fiddle is going to cost more than $100. Does that mean that they’re not suitable for folk music? Or is the rule simply that you must buy the cheapest available form of your instrument?!?