I have come into some unexpected money, which should be enough to cover the purchase of a keyed wooden flute and I am thinking of ordering one. I’m not sure, though; maybe you could help me decide.
I am a beginning player: I have played whistles for a few years and have played a Dixon polymer for the past year or so. Although I doubt that I will ever be really very good, I enjoy it. I really enjoy Irish trad music, but I also enjoy classical. I think that I would like to be able to play more of both, but I run into quite a few accidentals and keys that are hard to handle with my keyless Dixon. I would consider getting a Boehm flute for the classical, but I really like the wooden look and sound, even for classical music and I would like to stick to one main flute for both styles. It also seems a little more authentic too.
Some things do give me pause, though. One is, obviously, the cost. Another is the waiting time–partially because I haven’t even played for two years yet, so who knows what will happen two years from now. How will my tastes change?
I’m really agonizing over this and there is a lot more going through my mind, but I don’t want to bore you all.
Finally I’ll get to the subject line. Assuming I do decide to order a flute, are there recommendations for me considering my interest in classical music as well as Irish (that ought to cause this to go for a few pages)?
Well, if you can stand the 2 year wait, get an 8-key by Hammy Hamilton.
If waiting 2 years is out of the question, get in touch with Michael Cronnolly and find out how long you’d have to wait for a 6-keyed M&E Rudall and Rose.
That’s my $.02 worth; others will doubtless have a variety of opinions.
It would be good if you were able to try playing a keyed flute before buying one. I bought one having not played a keyed flute before and I found the weight and hand position to be very uncomfortable, as I have some RSI hand problems. I too love the sound and look of wood flutes, but I play alot of jazz and need a chromatic instrument for that. I’m playing Boehm for now, and bamboo when I don’t need accidentals.
I agree with James. Get an M&E Rudall Rose. I love that flute! It’ll only take weeks or months and give you a great feel for whether you want the keys or not.
You can play it while you’re on the waiting list for a Hammy or something and re-sell later.
Also, the $8-900 bucks is a lot easier to thnk about than the several grand you’ll be shelling out for a fully-keyed wooden flute by anyone worth buying from.
Another thought might be a Healy. I have no experience at all but I know his waiting times are on the order of weeks not years. He has a nice website. Check it out.
He also makes a 10-hole chromatic flute. Anybody ever try to play one of those? I’m guessing it’s tricky.
Skip’s chromatic ten-hole flutes are a player-by-player affair. I’ve seen people pick them up and absolutely fall in love. I have also seen people pick them up and give them right back. I get along better with keys, personally. A lot of Skip’s fifing buddies take an active interest in his ten-hole flutes.
Aside from the 30 day wait for keyed instruments, the nice thing about Skip is that if you don’t bond with the instrument he delivers then you can send it back for a refund (good for a year), and he’s willing to set up payment plans.
Skip also learned how to make flutes from Chris Abell ( http://www.abellflute.com/ ) so he’s designed more than a few flutes for players wanting to play both Irish and classical.
If you want to open a dialogue with someone who uses Skip’s flutes for classical and Irish music, then contact Andra Bohnet at abohnet@jaguar1.usouthal.edu. She’s the Associate Professor of Flute at University of South Alabama.
If you have the money, I’d go with a better flute right up front. If you’ve been reading these forums, then you know the better makers. If you really want a polymer, then go for it, but don’t do it to save time. I think – still uncontested – that the better wooden flute makers make the better flutes. If you’d like an Olwell, Hamilton, McGee, etc. and don’t want to wait, there are used flutes on several sites around – you will pay about what a new one costs (maybe a little more, but don’t spend too much more), and have a broken-in flute right away. If your tastes or requirements change, then you can always sell that flute for about the same amount – a bit like good real estate.
I think the step-up flute argument is only valid if you simply don’t have the money. But enough step-up flutes, and you’ve spent the same and still don’t have a great flute. To save money as a beginner, start with keyless (unless you get a great deal on a keyed flute).
My opinion, of course, but that’s what I’d’ve done with a lump of money, had I known better starting out.
Gordon
I don’t know where you are in Washington but I would suggest going to the Symposium next month in Seattle. You’ll get exposure to great players and get to try flutes by several makers and talk to some makers themselves. If you want to make a very informed decision, that would be my suggestion. Information is on Casey Burns’ website.
Cheers,
Aaron
The only problem I can see with starting off with a fine wooden flute as opposed to the Cronnolly Rudall & Rose polymer is the waiting period for the wooden flute.
If you are getting a keyed flute, that waiting period is usually measured in years.
Think how much better a flutist any of us could be if we had started playing two years earlier.
It would be a shame to waste those two (or more) years. If you’re going to shell out the buck$ for a high-end keyed flute anyway, I would say shell out a little more and get the M&E keyed R&R at least to learn on until your wooden one is ready.
That’s why I’d suggested a used flute. There are many out there, people moving up from a keyless to a keyed, or trading a Pratten for a Rudall style, selling of an extra or whatever, and the wait time is only as long as it takes to mail a flute. I respect your personal view on the M&E Rudall, but you’re already talking a fairly high price, especially if the buyer would like to start on/with keys, special embouchure, etc., and – now or eventually – griff will want a wooden flute, anyway.
In any either case, the suggestion by Aaron to go to a symposium is a great one; nothing we can suggest here will be better than trying a few flutes out yourself, and/or – if your playing’s not up to a true test – hearing a few flutes played and asking owners/makers about the different flutes firsthand.
Gordon
In October 2002, Casey posted to the Wooden Flute list: "It is my reluctant duty to announce that, due to truly unusual circumstance beyond our control, Dusty Strings must postpone the 2nd Annual Traditional Flute Symposium. This postponement is due to the development of serious structural problems with our building at 3406 Fremont Ave N. "
Postponement to either first week of October 2003, or April 2004.
Hello there,
Just thought I’d recommend Gilles Lehart. He has a website if you do a search. I have a six key flute by him that is great. It doesn’t look as nice as some of the other well known makers’ flutes who use block mounts, but its the best flute I’ve found that suits me.I bought mine used for 750, but when I checked not to long ago his price for a six key was not much higher and the wait was about a year. things may have changed since then but its worth a look.
thanks,
Patrick
In reading your post, you stated your interests are:
a) wooden flute
b) keyed
c) ordering (presumably from a maker)
d) play irish and classical music
Keeping that in mind , I will try to leave any ‘hidden agendas’ out.
Yes, both types of music can be played on these types of flutes. Any of the reputable makers of wooden 8-keyed flutes will serve your interest best. Personally, I think it is a great idea to make the purchase because you are expressing your desire to do so. Follow your bliss my man!
As you may know, you will also need to make one more investment: alot of practice. This is your insurance to make the purchase worthwhile - guaranteed.
I do not play classical music. The only fluteplayer I know who does play classical music on these flutes is a professional and an absolute genuis at fingering the keywork. It may pose a challenge. Only you know if you are up to it. But I say go for it!
do it now while you can, live without regret - rama
p.s if you decide you don’t want the flute after trying it, put it on e-bay!
Hey Griff,
I just recently did a significant amount of research on this very subject, since I had in mind buying a 6 keyed flute for classical and Irish music. (I should mention that I have played Boehm flute for 14 years.)
For the reasons outlined below (as well as some other non-musical circumstances that arose), I finally decided against getting a keyed flute for classical music…here’s a bit of a summary of what I found:
The flute used for Irish music was the classical flute of mid-19th century England. These had large tone-holes designed to give the flute more power. As a result, the cross-fingerings used on the smaller-holed 1 key Baroque and Classical flute no longer worked. Keys were therefore added to allow notes outside of the D and G major scales. Unfortunately, with all these additional keys, the fingering for these flutes (in the context of classical music) is not easy. Especially the third octave fingerings get kind of nasty. Key signatures more than a flat or two or a sharp or two away from D and G major get quite difficult to play in.
Additionally, Baroque and Classical (Mozart, Haydn…) music was written for the 1 key flute, not for the multi-key Romantic flute now used for Irish music. This can make the music unfriendly to play on such a flute. On the other hand, if you’re playing Romantic music or Victorian music, the keyed wooden flute may work fine. However, keep in mind that Boehm originally played this type of flute and finally designed an entirely new system to overcome its limitations in the context of classical music. The other thing I found is that these flutes can be a difficult to play in tune (for classical music), since the holes are not really in their acoustically correct positions.
Basically, the bottom line I discovered is that it’s tough to find one flute that can do it all (meaning both Irish and Classical).
Please note that any criticism of the keyed wooden flute is purely in the context of classical music…for Irish music they are of course superior, and in fact the tradition developed on this type of flute.
For the moment I’m sticking with my Boehm for both, which is working out pretty well, but if my finances change, I may want a keyless Irish flute, too.
Sorry if this sounds bleak, but it’s all stuff worth thinking about. However, some good news: You could buy a decent Boehm flute for the price of a keyed wooden flute, or (this might be a great way to go) you could buy a keyless Irish flute and a 1 keyed Baroque or Classical flute for about the price of a fully keyed Irish flute, or, for even less money, you could buy and Aulos Baroque flute (plastic, but very good to start on, I understand) and a keyless M&E Rudall-style polymer flute, and you’re in business in short order without a huge monetary outlay. By the way, the maker I had been in contact with recently was Dave Copley (whose flutes get consistent rave reviews here). He was fantastic to correspond with…if you do go for an Irish flute (keyed or not), put him high on your list of makers!
I hope this helps.
Micah
Micah, this is my thinking exactly. I play both Boehm and “Irish” on a conical. Like you, I was thinking about getting a keyed conical (beyond my clumsy and problematic German fully-keyed), but found that the fingerings are unnecessarily hard for complex music and the sound wasn’t quite right when attempting Baroque or classical. For these, I’ve switched back to the Boehm, but am currently pursuing the baroque flute, which I think is most appropriate for 18th c. music.
You’re right that no flute plays all types of music (unless you’re Chris Norman), and it’s probably wise to find the instrument best suited for the style you most wish to play.
However, keep in mind that Boehm originally played this type of flute and finally designed an entirely new system to overcome its limitations in the context of classical music.
Just for the sake of accuracy: Boehm’s motivation was to increase the volume and projection of the flute, after having heard Nicholson play. The fingering system was a byproduct of his desire to have a large, correctly placed tone hole in its proper location for each tone of the scale.
He went through several incarnations of his flute design, starting with conical bore and moving to cylindrical, before finally coming up with the design we think of as the modern flute in 1847.
In Germany, paritcularly, the Boehm flute wasn’t widely accepted for orchestral use until after World War 1. Wagner in particular was critical of its sound, and referred to it as a “cannon.”
That being said, I agree that to modern players trained on the Boehm system, using a simple-system flute in classical music can be a challenge. Even though we call both a “flute,” they are not the same instrument, and do not have the same sound.
By the way, I’ve never had a chance to play a Copley, but by all I’ve heard about them, I agree his keyed flute would be a fine way to go.
James,
Thanks for correcting my statement about the origins of the Boehm flute; I oversimplified things.
Regarding the acceptance of the Boehm flute (or lack thereof) in Germany, Boehm himself preferred the use of a wood headjoint on a metal body. Going this route is usually more expensive, but it does sound nice–not like a conical bore flute, but warm and powerful all the same. (The high register also seems sweetened.) I used to have a McGee head on an old Armstrong Heritage flute, and it was a nice combination.
There are a number of makers of wood Boehm heads (there was a thread on this a little while back). Particularly interesting are the ones made by the Full Circle company (www.headjoints.com)–these are actually replicas of 19th c. wood heads by Boehm and Lot, and I’m sure they embody quite a different tonal aesthetic than modern (wood, or other) headjoints.
Micah
Not to quibble (but, hey, why not? ) but the acceptance or lack of acceptance for sometimes better ideas are not always because those not accepting the idea are right. More often, it’s simply a matter of resistance to new things, and a desire to continue to do things in a familiar way; ultimately, a matter of aquired taste, and a completely rehauled flute is going to take some convincing, no matter how many inherent flaws it worked out.
I agree that volume and power was Boehm’s original intent and incentive, but it’s hard to imagine that – as he developed his system – ease of chromatic play did not occur to him. Unlike all earlier advancements, he really reconstructed the instrument.
The Boehm system is easier to use, side by side with a conical classical flute, if you’re unfamiliar with either system. But I’m sure a master player in the 19th century, used to the keyed classical flute, would disagree with this assertion – he’d have to learn a whole new system and many of it’s attributes would sound “wrong” to him.
That the Boehm was eventually accepted around the time most of these old masters retired or died off, is not, I think, coincidental. The reverse of this is that modern Boehm players often have trouble appreciating the nuances of conical flutes (particularly baroque flutes, but classical conicals as well) and often hear only their inherent, perceived weaknesses, rather than seeing them, as James pointed out, as separate entities altogether.
) if the Irish keyed doesn’t suit you for classical stuff you can get a used Boehm on eBay pretty cheap.
) but the acceptance or lack of acceptance for sometimes better ideas are not always because those not accepting the idea are right. More often, it’s simply a matter of resistance to new things, and a desire to continue to do things in a familiar way; ultimately, a matter of aquired taste, and a completely rehauled flute is going to take some convincing, no matter how many inherent flaws it worked out.