Dixon Polymer vs. Olwell Bamboo

Irish Flute
1

Another wanna-be flute player here, looking for some direction. I’ve been playing whistle for a number of years and am thinking about trying my hand at the flute, I’m looking for a decent beginner instrument without having to break the bank. Ideally, I would like to buy an instrument that is a relatively “easy blower”, simple to maintain, but still approximates the tone and range of expression of a traditional wooden flute (tall order!?)

I have been considering the Dixon 3-piece polymer, which overall seems to get pretty favourable reviews. However, the Olwell bamboo flute seems to get even stronger praise, even from more experienced players.

Is the Olwell better overall than the Dixon? Or is it just “better for the money” given that the Dixon goes for about $200US, while the Olwell retails for around $70? I wouldn’t mind spending the extra $$ on the Dixon if I thought it was the better choice.

I know this is a pretty subjective question, but i’m fishing for opinions

Thanks,

SteveB

2

Here is a thread that cover this issue pretty well for your reading pleasure! :laughing:

http://chiffboard.mati.ca/viewtopic.php?t=11308&highlight=dixon+olwell+bamboo

I debated between these two flutes myself, and ended up getting the Dixon 3 piece because it is an Irish conical bore flute while the Olwell bamboo, although probably a better instrument, is a bamboo flute. One caveat, I’ve never played an Olwell bamboo flute, but I do really like my Dixon as a starter flute. Much more experienced flute players than I have been impressed with my Dixon, too, especially when they hear the price.

Eric

3

Ya know Steve there are other choices you could make. If you have never played the flute and just want to see if it is for you Alan Mount makes a great pvc flute that is tunable, you can rotate the mouth hole and the tone holes are offset. The tone, I think, is great and the tuning is dead on. I have a bunch of bamboo flutes and a Dixon 3 piece rosewood flute all of which I love but the Almount sits right here by my side and is always ready to grab and on the days when the Dixon wont play the Almount always does. For 50 bucks its worth a looksee if you ask me. I would also add that I dont own a bamboo flute that I think would be a good beginners flute, although I have an Olwell on the way-).

Tom

4

The thread that Jayhawk posted goes into great detail and is a good read. I must say that, having posted on that thread myself, my opinions have changed a little but not a lot. Since that thread I’ve spent a lot of time on my Olwell bamboo and I find that as for developing tone and embouchure, it’s brilliant.
I mentioned in the other thread how I have an old German flute that I’d had trouble with getting strong tone. After spending time on the Olwell and not touching the German flute for a while I went back to the German flute and found embouchure and tone to be significantly easier to attain. I had never had that kind of conversion after months going between the Dixon and the German flute.
So I still hold that the Olwell bamoo is better for tone and Dixon for fingering. Currently I like the Olwell bamboo better because of the powerful tone even though I still have some finger struggles on it (and I have big hands and long fingers).
I would say the Olwell bamboo fits your stated requirements better than the Dixon because you were looking for a low price, an easy blow, and range of tone and expression which the Olwell has over the Dixon on all counts. The only drawbacks to the Olwell bamboo are the fingering issue and that bamboo is much more fragile than polymer.
Best of luck!
Aaron

5

I’ve never played a Dixon, so I can’t comment on them, really. I do have an Olwell bamboo, which I really like.

One thing worth mentioning is that, if you look at the posts here on the whole, there are mixed comments about all the polymer flutes. Dixon, M&E, Seery. There are VERY few negative comments about Olwell bamboo flutes.

Stuart

6

Well Im sitting here just having a blast with my little Bb Bamboo flute by Sunreed, I think thats right. When I ordered it last winter it took 2 months or so to get it and of course I couldnt get a sound out of it. So I stashed it away until my lips started working an am I glad I did. Just a monster little flute. I dont think my Olwell will be here for another 3 weeks or so but I cant wait. I ordered an F just because I have enough D flutes. Though the Eb is tempting. I just love bamboo flutes. I will highly recomend Sunreed flutes. They arent cheap for the concert tuned ones but they are well made and in tune. I am also getting a little antsy about my Lehart. Only about 2 more months. I swore I wasnt going to think aboiut it when I ordered it back in January and I did pretty good up until now. Course I couldnt play at all back then and I was very much afraid I would never get a handle on these damn things up until a couple of months ago. But now its starting to drive me crazy. Well Ill just keep it to myself. What the heck its only 2 months or so…

Tom

7

I’m a beginner; I’ve had an Olwell cane flute for a year and a Dixon 3-piece for, oh, a month or two. If you’re concerned about bang for the buck, you won’t do better than the Olwell, period. However I think each flute has its pros over the other:

The Olwell is incredibly light and thin-walled, so the whole thing vibrates in your hands, especially in the lower octave. I don’t know whether it’s an artifact of that or not, but it sure seems to have a very big sound. OTOH, the finger stretch is difficult for people with small hands, and the toneholes are big.

The Dixon feels and plays more like a traditional flute. It’s got quite an easy stretch and small toneholes. It’s three pieces, so you can rotate the embouchure hole for your own style, plus you can rotate the hands relative to each other. My absolute favorite characteristic of it, though is that it’s plastic, so you can toot on it for a few minutes here and there, take it camping, do just about anything to it. Don’t have to worry about swabbing it, disassembling it, or leaving it in the car.

I play the Dixon way more because of the last point, but it all comes down to what’s most important to you.

8

Other than low cost, why are these two flutes always being compared?

The Olwell is a particularly good cane flute, exceptable for Irish music but not a conical flute, so one in D will probably be a hard finger-spread for a beginner.

You can learn on the Dixon, I suppose, and I don’t want to get into a debate as to where one sits on the “real” instrument scale.

But across these forums there are two decidedly different approaches to getting into playing flute (or any instrument, for that matter.) One is to spend the least amount of money, find out if you like playing the instrument and hopefully not be discouraged by the lesser or more difficult one you thriftily chose, and then, down the road, you spend more, sometimes in increasingly expensive increments, until you finally end up with a really good flute.

The second, which I obviously suggest, is to decide if you want to play flute first (really not a hard decision; if you’re at the point where you’re asking questions and spending any money at all, you’re really past the whim stage, anyway) and buy the best instrument you can afford so that you can really work on your playing, tone, etc., on a respectable instrument.

If, in the event, you find that the flute is not for you, you discover you have no front teeth or are missing fingers, a good flute can be resold just as easily, or easier, than a cheap flute. I understand the wait-time for a good flute is off-putting; I still suggest a used flute, then, over the “starter” flutes.

My point is, of course, that a flute made be a top maker will answer your question about whether flute is for you much faster than timid steps taken early on. I know there will be a barrage of dissenters, but every time a newby asks about flutes, they are deluged with suggestions for these starter flutes and alternative ideas, like the very nice but different cane flute.

Bottom line, if you want to play flute, get a real flute.

Gordon

9

I think I might agree with you Gordon. I will know for sure in a couple of months. I infact did order what I think will be a great instrument from a well known maker. But with a 10 month wait I could not stop myself from filling that time gap by buying a number of “starter flutes”. I am thankful that I did. I am thankful to Alan for a great 50 doller flute that I cant see myself ever getting rid of. I am thankful to Tony Dixon for making a realy good 3 piece wooden flute that I love to play and also cant see myself getting rid of. Both of these flutes took me through the struggle of learning how to play. I dont have the advantage of a teacher and there were many times I felt like just giving up the idea of ever playing the flute. But I finaly started having some success after many months of frustration and these two flutes had a lot to do with it. The many bamboo flutes I have each have a voice all their own and are great fun to play. And now I am realy ready to get my hands on a good flute. And that will happen very soon. I think the craftmanship on some of these "starter flutes" is very good and the fact that the makers are also players makes a big difference. I have also enjoyed the opertunity of meeting both Alan and Tony in cyber space. It surely added to my insentive to battle my way through the imposible times. I cant help but share these two makers and a couple of bamboo flute makers with anyone thinking about taking up the flute. I was a bigginer whistle player when I dove head first into the flute. I had know idea what I was in for.
These flutes brought me to the point of being a player, or at least to that stage where I believe I could be a player. So I am pleased as punch that I bought these flutes. I would love to, at some point, get my hands on an old turn of the century flute and I am sure I will but my plate is full right now and there isn`t a dud in the lot.

Tom

10

Good points, all, Tom.
I wasn’t suggesting a beginner get on Ebay and get themselves a four grand Rudall, of course, though if you can swing it, go for it! What I was/am on about is that beginners anxious to play should not put themselves in the position of playing lesser, or more difficult, instruments for fear of spending too much money up front, as that will not be an issue forever, as opposed to whether you want to keep playing or not. There are certainly wait-list logistics to overcome as you sit about wanting to get started, so I can see getting something, anything, to play while I wait for a new quality flute (Lehart’s a good choice, BTW).
So, maybe I should rephrase my recommendation; ORDER the best you can afford as soon as you can, and grab the best cheapo you can in the meanwhile…
Beyond that, Tom, we’ll see in reality how long you do hold on to those cheaper flutes. Or, rather, we’ll see how much you actually play them after a better flute comes along. I personally find that, even with my best intentions, it is a struggle to return to the few lesser flutes I keep about when my favorite is on hand.
Gordon

11

I am looking forward to putting that to the test Gordon-)

Tom

12

I agree with Gordon. Get the best possible instrument you can get your hands on, it will best facilitate learning plus you won’t have to contend with any of the shortcomings of an inferior instrument or an instrument that really isn’t suitable for the task.
What has to happen for fluters is that the embouchure needs to develop. It ain’t gonna happen on alot of the inexpensive flutes, what will likely happen is that a student will develop a poorly formed embouchure, a compensation that will need to be overcome at a later point in time if they intend on continuing with fluteplaying.

13

Well ya know what I always say rama, any embouchure you can walk away from is a good embouchure. I am guessing that you haven`t played a Dixon 3 piece in wood or from what I hear plastic. Mine requires a very focused embouchure. I will admit that Alans flute is maybe to easy to play(thank god for that) but it seems to me that I have to modify my embouchure for every flute I have. But hear is another task I will soon put to the test-)

Tom

14

Tom - I agree with you about the embouchure requirements of Tony Dixon’s conical flutes. They do take work to develop a good embouchure to get a good tone, but I often hear that about the top flutes when played by newer players, too.

rama - have you actually played a Dixon wood flute or conical polymer? What about it’s embouchure would make it a poor learners/beginner’s flute? I’ve cut a few embouchures myself in CPVC, PVC and bamboo, and it seems fine to me (much better than any of my poor attempts, but my poor attempts have given me an appreciation of the importance and qualities of a well cut embouchure). The Dixon embouchure is no different than a Dave William’s cut embouchure at my session. Granted, the Dixon flute itself isn’t as fancy, and it doesn’t have the tuning slide, but it holds its own at the session with regard to tone.

Eric

15

Hi Eric,
I haven’t played a Dixon flute, but I have played M&E and Seery polymer flutes. My previous comment isn’t directed at Dixon,M&E, or Seery specifically. I will post more later - I was referring to how to get a full powerful reedy tone. It requires a decent nicholson (large bore, large holed) flute which I think they both fill the bill.

16

I’m back, and it’s late, just in from a session where I tried a Seery again. Eric my friend, I’m glad you called me on my post. You are right. I hadn’t read thru this thread carefully before I posted. I just skimmed thru it and then piped in. I take back my statements. BTW, I meant more than the embouchure hole, what I meant was in order to learn to blow a Nicholson style flute or to be able to ‘fill’ it, would require practice on a nicholson style flute or something along that line.

17

rama - I take it you liked this Seery this time around?

I hope so, I have one on order because I wanted a Nicholson style/prattenesque flute. Although I really like my Dixon, it’s more of a small holed R&R style flute (actually, looking at Terry McGee’s website, it looks a lot like his Grey Larsen model flute minus the tuning slide - the hole sizes and spaces look identical—interesting), and now that I’ve played longer I think I want that nicholson/prattenesque sound.

I do agree with you though that a bad flute hinders new player development. My own flutes sure did :stuck_out_tongue: although the process of making them taught me a lot. Also, I spent years playing a Hall Crystal Flute which not really a bad flute was quite different from an Irish flute and DID hinder my embouchure development (at the time, I always wondered why my playing sounded so different from those guys on CDs and tapes :party: ).

OK, I need to go, I’m breaking out the emoticons and enjoying it…

Eric

18

Rama,
I think the thread began really as a Dixon v. Olwell, not a Seery mentioned anywhere. Seery’s, to my knowledge, are the most consistent ‘almost-like-wood’ flutes, although I’ve known a few people to complain they’d received theirs a bit under-par in the finishing dept – none recently, I might add. M&Es, too, have come a long way.
But both of these makes are far more expensive than the plastic Dixon; I’ve not played one, myself, although advanced players I respect who have have never uttered a kind word toward them. Personally, then, I must refrain from an opinion on them, one way or another.
My main point was against sacrificing a well-in-tune flute with a good embouchure design and cut in favor of a cheap flute that may hinder or at least not advance the player and – as you put it well – cause the player to step back again when a better flute comes into the picture.
A comment someone made earlier was that many good quality flutes have difficult embouchures for beginners, too, just like the cheap ones. This is a misleading analysis; the embouchures on a good flute may be difficult to that beginner only because the player is a beginner, not because the embouchure is badly cut. This is as opposed to an embouchure that is difficult because it not cut well, fights upper octave play and does not allow good tone production.
Again, I am not attacking any one brand specifically, nor was this another polymer-against-wood ramble, but rather that – when someone is truly interested in playing the flute (or, again, any instrument), they should really try to get the best they can afford – projecting that thought a bit into the future, as well. If that is a polymer, then really get the best polymer you can; some are much better than similarly priced wooden flutes. For a bit more than a polymer, there are some truly great wood flutes that rival the truly astronomically priced ones.
In any event, I only jumped in on this because every time a beginner starts a thread with which of the cheapest options are better, I think it’s worth mentioning that more time and money may be saved in the long run, not to mention true pleasure in learning and playing, by getting one of the better flutes right up front.
Gordon

19

Gordon,

you mention some advanced players you know who’ve played a Dixon and not liked it. Do you know if it was his conical 3 piece or his PVC one or two piece cylindrical models (the ones often sold with a interchangeable whistle head)? I was “subjected” to an evening of the two piece flute/whistle combo the other night (luckily it was microphoned so I could really hear it), and I didn’t think it sounded any better than anything I ever made in my basement. My wife even commented she was glad I hadn’t bought that flute!

Anyway, it sounded nothing like my 3 piece Dixon which sounds like most wooden flutes I’ve seen others play or played myself. Maybe I’m lucky and have an exceptional one…who knows?

Regardless, I really do agree that playing on a bad flute with a badly cut embouchure, or design so poor it’s not well in tune, hinders more than helps. If I could go back in time, I would have saved a lot of money not buying fifes and whistles instead of a flute right off the bat in an attempt to have a flute like object that didn’t cost $500 and instead just bought a good flute right away. I still like my Dixon, though… :slight_smile: , but I’m simply going nuts waiting for my Seery!

Eric

20

Hi,

Gordon, you are spot on with getting the right tools for the job. I think talking about the best at the cheapest price, may be fine for some. But, if this is your hobby, don’t mess about and settle for second best, because you feel you may save a few quid and latter you order that Murray, Hammy or Olwel. Piper, have to pay our amazing sums of money to get themselves up and running and most have to let do with what they can get as the waiting lists are so long.

I got a flute from a maker which gets a lot of press here for my daughter, who has been playing whistle for a couple of years. Her tutor told her “not to bother with that flute, go get yourself a Hamilton or Murray” and went on “you would send too much time trying to learn to blow that flute. Sure you’re as well getting the best, because you have proven your interest by playing whistle for two years and another six months staying on whistle will be more benefit to you than wasting time learning to blow that flute”.

So, Orlagh will receive her Sam Murray flute this week, as it’s now in the post. Sam said he will have the flute ready for mid August and true to his word he did. The flute cost £450 :slight_smile: , about half the price of a practice set of pipes.

Ta for now,
Sean