This may or may not relate to “pipers grip” issues, but I thought I’d ask. I’m speaking as a right handed player here. When I was starting out on the flute I watched videos of Matt Molloy (as he was and is the Daddy) and I figured I could do a lot worse than copy his grip. Consequently, my left hand thumb lies almost horizontal along the barrel and points to the right. It means I have a nice straight left wrist, no RSI problems. However, I’ve seen loads of players whose left thumb actually points the other way (e.g. Seamus Egan) with a very bent left wrist. Pipers grip tends to mean thumb running at 90 degrees to the barrel, pointing back towards you.
Any thoughts, opinions on thumb direction and/or bent wrist issues? Clearly it’s a very individual thing, and I doubt many people set out to deliberately ape someone as I did when they’re starting out.
m.d.
I heard that Seamus Egan has hand problems, possibly as a result of his bent wrist grip. This was at least third hand information though (and now it’s fourth hand) so I don’t know how accurate it is. My own personal thumb looks like this (only reversed. I’m not a lefty. It’s just the camera):
I don’t have an answer to your question, but in trying to figure out how you could possibly point your thumb to the right I was caused to find a more comfortable way top position my left hand on my Tipple monster-sized flute. So your question helped me and I thank you.
It’s conventional wisdom that a more neutral wrist
position helps ward off injury, carpal tunnel, or whatever,
and Brad Hurley, whom I respect a good deal, told
me he had trained himself that way, after seeing
the repetitive motion injuries some bent-wrist
players he knows have suffered. Not that a bent
wrist guarantees trouble: Mike Rafferty’s
wrist is quite bent. Same goes for computers.
People who type lots with bent wrists are more
prone to injury, but that’s no guarantee of injury,
nor does a neutral position guarantee no injury.
It’s a matter of probabilities.
So I believe that, over the long haul, we minimize risk
of injury with a straighter wrist, not ramrod straight,
but more neutral.
A problem is that, initially, a very cocked wrist may be
comfortable and inviting. It provides a nice ledge
to balance the flute and it brings the fingers
into easier contact with the holes. For many (myself)
a straighter wrist (after years of a cocked wrist, then
trouble) takes some getting used to and repositioning
of the fingers. That’s why I’m a bit nervous about the
advice that we should just go for the most comfortable
position. I’m afraid it may lead to something initially
comfortable that will lead to injury down the road.
To be honest with you, there are more than a few, excellent ITM players who use a “traditional” ITM left hand grip, aka a piper’s grip, with the thumb upside along the tube, pointing to the left, as you mention.
Now, this is blasphemy, here, on the Chiff and Fipple board, but, let me mention another left hand technique, in that the left hand thumb could as well be positioned under the flute and pointed more towards the foot of the flute, and, that the base of your left hand index finger, aka L1, could support your flute.
To sum it up, there indeed are more than a few very, very fine players who hold their left hand thumb up the tube, to the left, and I indeed do love what they can do, but there is another option.
Plenty on this or closely related stuff on here! Here are some of the more recent threads relevant to your query. It’s no secret I’m a proponent of the “standard”/“classical”/“normal”/“orthodox”/“Rockstro” method of holding the flute - which is essentially what Matt Molloy does. If you are emulating him and it is working for you, don’t worry about it! There is no one “right” way of holding a flute, but there are methods of establishing what is right/best for the individual. There are also features of ways of holding a flute which are more likely to be disadvantageous for actual playing by limiting stability and relaxed, fluid speed of controlled movement and for general health as well by causing stress injury. The “orthodox”, well executed, would seem (historically, anatomically, etc.) to offer the best playing freedom with the least risk of stress injury, but some people certainly get the latter from it: whether that is because they are not doing it optimally for their physique may be a valid question. Many fine players use “pipers’”, apparently without ill effect. If one uses “orthodox”, the L thumb should only be an auxiliary support to the tube, if at all, as its primary role is to be free to operate the thumb keys - on a keyed simple system or on a Boehm flute. Even on a keyless or 1-key, the L thumb should be relaxed lest it be part of an incipient “death grip”!
Check these out. Wandering thumb Help me hold my flute Piper’s grip vs normal
“Tradition”? Wazzat? I thumb my nose at “Tradition”!
“Nay, Sir, (but) I do bite my thumb…”
Well, actually/alternatively, I think I’ll go suck my thumb… feeling a bit insecure. Or perhaps I’ve just splashed some hot potion on it and suddenly I have a Thumb of Knowledge???
as a pro musician and multi intstrumentalist, I’ve had all sortsa of probs…much less to none now. I use a piper’s grip and have not had a single problem as my LH wrist is straight. My RH has never had a prob either…BUT i’m cautious to NEVER EVER EVER ‘play through the pain.’ this ain’t the gym. if it hurts or even bothers..STOP. Figure out why and think “my hands are relaxed” and follow through w/that thought
This and “what is most comfortable at first may not be safest in the long term” seem to come up in most discussions of upper hand position. Can anyone provide a bit more hard information ?
I have slight ulnar nerve problem (too long on a computer leaning on left elbow or fore-arm while using the mouse in right hand). If, when playing the flute, I try and straighten my left wrist beyond what is relaxed it doesn’t hurt at the time but feels tight and then hurts later, sometimes for days.
I am a beginner. I learned to hold my flute from the instructions in Grey Larsen’s book (he emphasises the ‘relaxed’ bit). My wrist ends up slightly bent (not unlike jemtheflutes ‘avatar’ - I assume its him).
So unless someone had some mighty good evidence against it I am going to stick with ‘relaxed’. But if there is good evidence, I would like to know about it. I am starting flute at an age where it is getting difficult to distinguish between ‘stiff after a good workout’ and ‘overdid it and caused an injury’.
Sorry to sound negative. I am learning a lot here. (edited for typos)
Slightly bent is great, IMO. Not a matter of ramrod straight.
THAT seems to me a mistake. Many of us start out with
wrists pretty drastically cocked. More neutral moderates
that. More neutral doesn’t mean unrelaxed. It sounds
as though your position is excellent.
I tried to copy the picture of Veillon (but couldn’t), whose
wrist is gracefully bent. Maybe someone can do it.
That’s what I’d like to do.
If something definitely hurts or has nasty consequences,
for heaven’s sake, don’t do it!
Wazzat? I thumb my nose at “Tradition”!
