My left thumb feels most comfortable placed rather far back
on the flute–that is, up toward the headjoint.
It’s parallel to the base of L1. Sometimes above it.
One drawback is that this makes it a bit hard to reach
a Bb key. I’m playing mostly keyless flutes rt now,
so there’s no problem. Often I half-hole the Bb anyway,
when playing keyed; it’s the easiest note for me to half-hole.
Also, as I know it’s coming I move the thumb over
toward the key in advance.
But I wonder if there are any other drawbacks here.
A learned and respected board member once expressed
the view that left-thumb position makes a real difference
to the agility of the left hand.
I can train myself to put it in the standard place,
but I wonder if there’s a point.
Advice welcome, especially from people farther along
than myself (4 1/2 years).
L thumb positon does affect the flexibilty and control of the whole hand, though I’d suggest it is less important in that way than the R thumb is to its hand when playing the flute. I’ve said before on C&F that it is quite amazing how much difference just a couple of mm in the position of the R thumb can make…
Obviously if playing a flute with thumb key(s) for the L thumb, it (the L thumb) needs to be in a good place to operate them readily. On keyless, it really is redundant unless using one of the so-called “pipers’ grip” styles of holding the flute. In those, the L thumb may be used to provide the inward pressure against the flute tube which is afforded by the side of the L forefinger in standard holds. If, as it sounds from your comments, Jim, you are using a form of standard flute support, I’d suggest as an exercise you try playing for a while with your L thumb totally disengaged - just let it curl relaxedly across the palm under the flute tube without touching anything, hand or tube. This will probably make you tense the rest of the hand because things will feel insecure, but try to relax and get the “perfect” balance of pressures to support the flute with the three point method and no fingers down on the tube/holes. Play some tunes and try to keep that L thumb hanging (really hard to do to begin with!) and everything else relaxed. Then try simply moving it by the shortest path to contact the side of the flute. If the Bb key interferes, adjust the thumb position the minimum amount to avoid it. Depending on the construction of your Bb key, you may be comfortable resting the thumb on the mounting block or pivot of the key, whence you can simply roll it headwards to operate the key. Alternatively you will place the thumb partially side-on on the tube just above the key and be able to roll it footwards onto the key. See which works best for your hand on your flute. In either case, and as always, relaxed but positive and firm positioning and movement are the objective. The thumb should not play more than a minor role in supporting the flute; absolutely DO NOT clench the tube in a claw-like forefinger-and-thumb “death-grip”.
Concerning rt hand thumb, I have tape in place under the flute
between R1 and R2, much closer to R1, so my thumb
will know where to go. Otherwise it wanders down the
flute. My left thumb wanders up the flute, on the other hand (hee, hee),
so there is a certain fearful symmetry.
Jim, after four years, you probably know far better than we if your thumb position is causing any difficulty. With regard to playing Bb, I think anything short of a piper’s grip would make that key awkward. Always seemed to me something Boehme paid particular attention to. It is the only key that can be held down 100% of the time and yet only affect the one note, so when you play in a flatted key, you hold the Bb key down and forget about it. Every time you play B, it will automatically be flat. On top of that, he created an alternate fingering for Bb which is very comfortable to play.
Cubitt, the modern Boehm flute standard B/Bb key arrangement you are extolling is one of two features of the modern flute that is NOT Boehm’s - and he decried its use! It is actually the design of an Italian named Briccialdi - famous virtuoso and composer of a well known, tortuous set of variations on Carnival of Venice. Boehm’s own design can be seen illustrated in his Treatise and involved a more logical placing of the B key-touch headwards of the Bb, so that whilst having all the advantages you state, it also allowed for a logical movement down-tube for a lower note. Carte’s and Radcliffe’s systems also featured mechanisms that were superior in that regard. Boehm also preferred the open G# set up as more logical and better for e’‘’, though he did himself provide a closed version.
“Pipers’ grip” makes use of the Bb key impossible on a keyed simple system flute because the thumb is used instead of the side of the forefinger to provide the inward pressure on the outer side of the tube. It is thus too far from and too busy to operate the Bb key - one would just drop the flute. “Piper’s grip” just isn’t a viable option on a Boehm flute at all.
With a well judged “standard hold”, use of the Bb thumb key on simple system flutes should not present any real problems.
Didn’t know that about the Bb. However, I was talking about using the piper’s grip on an eight-key, not a Boehm. I thought the piper’s grip freed the left thumb more than a classical grip. If not, then I guess it wouldn’t help.
The left hand doesn’t support the flute in this grip; sometimes I let it dangle.
One real advantage is that it is free to use the B-flat key when needed.
The only points of support for this grip are the right thumb, which pushes out (not up), the knuckle of the left hand first finger, which pushes back (not up), and your chin, which is the fulcrum.
Yes James, that’s what I have been describing, though I prefer to call it the “standard” or “orthodox” flute hold - it was around looong before the esteemed Mr. Rockstro. - and I avoid the use of the word “grip” for fairly obvious reasons! (Save in the context of the proverbial “flute death grip”. )
!!!
My bold. - Typo for “thumb”??? If so, we are in total agreement. The dangle is what I recommended Jim try as an exercise. (I sometimes wonder if I’m writing Nonglish, for all the misapprehensions I seem to engender. Wasn’t what I wrote before clear? I do try to be precise and clear.)
Re: “pipers’ grip” - I’ve said before in other threads that, whilst I have all due respect for some wonderful players who use it on flute, I would never advocate it or teach it, and would positively discourage it in anyone who asked my advice. Cubitt wrote that he thought it freed up the L thumb (I see he is himself, like me, an “orthodox” holder). Hardly! Not in any version of it I have seen. The whole point of L hand “pipers’ grip” is that the fingers come in pretty much horizontal to the tube and overlap it in order to play with the second-in knuckle pad, or at least well down the top one or at the crease. By definition this precludes any inward pressure from the fingers. No problem on vertically held whistle or pipes chanter, but BIG problem on flute. Most players who use it hold the L thumb out to the side of the hand and press it against the outer side of the tube headwards of all else. It is the only way they can keep the flute up. There is no possibility of removing the thumb to operate a key, even were there one in reach from that position: the flute would fall away from the embouchure. I have seen some users manage L hand support from below by dint of gripping quite hard between the fingers and a straight thumb, but if anything that looks even more insecure, awkward and strained than the other version, and again would militate severely against use of the Bb thumb key. It is also a posture that almost inevitably fosters “death grip”! I believe some “pipers’ grip” players who make use of keys have an alternative Bb touch for R1 parallelling the long C key. (I have one of these anyway as a duplicate on my R&R - it’s not that unusual.)
- and I avoid the use of the word “grip” for fairly obvious reasons! (Save in the context of the proverbial “flute death grip”. 
)
