If one were to replace corked tenons with thread, how would one go about it?
I acquired a Hamilton flute a while back with corked tenons that I guess have flattened out such that the original owner covered them with plumbers tape. It’s not the best fit.
I haven’t had the nerve to unwrap the tape yet, in order to inspect the cork.
Rather than ship the flute to Hammy for a redo, can I just wind thread around the corked tenons? Dental floss? I thought I remembered seeing this topic some time ago, but I’m too pressed for time to search around for it…
I would replace the cork pesonally, based mostly on the logic that Hammy knows a lot more about this stuff than most of us and he chooses to use cork. Most music supply store, such as those that cater to band instruments, have small sheets of cork that you can cut to size for the tenons on woodwind instruments. A friend of mine does this every so often for her flute (also a Hamilton) and it works quite well. There might have to be a little sanding of the cork to get it to fit just right but otherwise it isn’t a very difficult repair.
Before you give up on the old cork try this little trick a flute maker showed me. Apply a little moisture (lick it!) and run a small flame around it (ie. cigarette lighter). This can sometimes swell the cork just enough to give a good fit again.
I’m glad Wes said this. I abhor threaded tenons, and actually sent my R&R away (when it needed something else) to have the tenons corked. And Olwell corks his tenons too . . . so following this logic that the makers have some idea what they’re doing. . .
I actually think it is all opinion, though, and if you like thread, then thread you shall have. I prefer cork for a couple of reasons. One is that when you oil, the oil doesn’t mess with the cork. I don’t think the cork minds, and might actually like, being oiled. Thread hates oil and gets all greasy and nasty. Second, I feel like I have to adjust threaded tenons every 5 minutes. The thread compresses rather quickly, and it’s not like it bounces back like cork.
I think if you grease the cork with good cork grease, it lasts a long, long time. My current primary flute, which I’ve had for nearly a year, has nice tight joints, just as firm and stable as when I got the flute a year ago.
I would have agreed with you several months ago, Stuart, but my new baroque (like most early flutes) has thread and it works wonderfully. My Hammy has cork, and I replaced it when it ripped, with cork. I think flutes made to take cork work better with it, those made for thread, not; it has to do with the thickness of the tenon, I think, and how well the thread was wound in the first place.
As for oil messing up the thread.. hmm.. the cork grease I use is half oil, half bee’s wax. Not sure how the same oil would mess up the thread. On the other hand, I think oil is what helped de-glue the cork on my Hammy’s tenon in the first place..
For the Hamilton in question, though, I’d replace the cork; if you can’t do it yourself, any clarinet/woodwind repair person in your area can for a few bucks. No need to send it back to Hammy.
Gordon
I guess I didn’t consider that the tenons might have been made differently for cork vs. thread joints. As always, Gordon, I bow to thine experience.
As for oil messing up the thread . . . I suppose I need to admit that I’m a Slatherer when it comes to oiling keyless flutes. I have two keyless flutes that are threaded, and when I oil, since I’m lazy, the threading soaks it up. It’s all about me, really, and not the thread per se.
The best thread I’ve used is embroidery thread. I just went to a fabric store and bought some nice bright blue stuff, and it works fine. For thread.
Is there any real hazard to the practice of putting teflon tape over the joints? I know I’ve done it. The pic over on the Flute Porn thread of my R&R shows it with teflon-wrapped tenons. I learned the practice when I was a youngster playing highland pipes. We’d get the hemp (thread) joints to just a hair loose, and then wrap the hemp with teflon tape. It lasted a long time.
Well, for me, it lasted until I oiled the drones, and then . . . blech.
I guess I thought there was something wrong with having the tape over cork, but I may just replace it for the time being, as some of you seem to have done it with no ill effects…
I’ve replaced a dead cork with thread in my main flute, just a few weeks ago, using the instructions from Clive Catterall’s site, which have already been posted above. It’s easy to do and works great, easy to redo if you mess up. The only disadvantage of this kind of threaded tenon is that it’s sticky (tacky). The kind of grease used doesn’t dry. It’s much safer to do thread than cork, if you’re doing it yourself.
Oh, I don’t know if my tenon idea is based on experience, Stuart; I just tried to thread my blackwood Hamilton when the cork ripped (though I didn’t do the thorough job that Glauber did, following Clive’s instructions), and I didn’t like the way it either fit or felt, or held the parts together. The boxwood traverso, on the other hand, with threaded tenons fits extremely well and the flute, assembled, feels solid and strong. In addition, it has been as easy to maintain as cork has been for the other flutes.
And so it made me wonder about tenon construction in general; since a maker like Hamilton prefers cork, he created the flute with an unbelievably thin tenon (easier to do with blackwood, anyway, I suppose), then supported the tenon tip with a silver band for strength, and the tenon seems custom-made for cork. The much thicker boxwood tenon of the one-key was clearly made with thread in mind. Not that cork couldn’t work, I’d guess, but the flute was designed the way the original was designed, and that was for thread. In both cases, with the appropriate cork or thread in place, the flutes feel secure when assembled, and are easy to maintain.
As for teflon tape, I hear the danger is two-fold; one, due to it’s slippery abilities, a too-tight tenon might be engaged when it shouldn’t be, and two, unlike cork or thread, it doesn’t allow for the tenon to swell naturally beneath it and therefore might damage the tenon in this way. But my experience with it is limited; I couldn’t get it to stay on, and after a few tries, I stopped trying to use it.
Gordon
One of the problems with teflon tape is that it will trap moisture under it, leading to rot. It’s fine as a temporary or emergency solution.
My flute is made by Eamonn Cotter, and it was made for cork, but in this case the thread worked fine. I had to do one tenon, but did both anyway because i didn’t want to have to carry 2 kinds of grease (thread and cork). The larger tenon took 6 wrappings of sewing thread, but the smaller one (foot joint) took only 2! I wasn’t happy with that, i’d rather have more than 2 wrappings, but still, both work fine. The fit is less tight than with cork (but i think the original cork tenons were too tight anyway). I guess i could make it tighter without endangering the flute, but it fits well and feels solid, and the grease makes it air and moisture tight. In fact, the emergency fix for a threaded tenon that goes loose is to add more grease. Then later you can add more thread to make it firmer.
The way explained in Clive’s site is to wrap, then apply grease, then wrap some more, more grease, etc, always covering each layer of thread with a layer of grease. Stop when you reach the desired fit. He recommends cheap sewing thread and that’s what i used. Other people have used dental floss. I think it doesn’t matter much, because the sewing thread will just suck in the grease and the whole thing will be waterproof anyway.
I have one of the Sweetheart fifes (in G). It has red felt or something like it on the tenon. When this stuff wears out, would thread be the way to go? It’s pretty thin, and it might be hard to sand cork that thin and it still hold up.
Ralph Sweet uses a different kind of threaded tenon, one that’s dry. I’m not sure, but i’m guessing he hot-glues them. The wet threaded tenon would probably work on Sweet flutes just fine, but i’ve never seen one of his tenons wear out either; they’re very resilient.
Ralph is very responsive to e mail about such
things. How do you like the G fife? What’s it
made of? I have a G Sweetheart in rosewood.
It’s so loud at the top, I’m nervous
about my hearing. I’m finally able
to play all the notes–good instrument.
I just got the G fife – in rosewood – a few weeks ago. I like it fine so far, but I’m really a Boehm player, and mostly a closed-hole player at that. I’ve been playing the smaller whistles for several years, and have made a feeble attempt at an open-hole Boehm. I also have an old German wooden flute with keys that I had repadded several years ago and it still really will barely play at all. So, with that background, when I tried playing these wooden instruments, I was surprised at how well they speak. The store (in Savannah, Ga.) had the same G fife in maple, rosewood and blackwood. The blackwood was really impressive, but the rosewood sounded pretty good, and was a bit cheaper. The maple was kind of puny by comparison. I have e-mailed Mr. Sweet already about whether to oil it or not, and he said I could but not completely necessary. I just saw this thread, and wondered about this red tenon stuff. I’m still not sure whether this should be considered a fife or a small flute. Any idea on that? Hey, I appreciate y’all responding.
Mr Sweet impregnates (most of? all?) the instruments he makes with tung oil under high pressure and he believes that this treatment makes it un-necessary for the owner to oil the instrument.
As for the name, ususally the instrument pitched in D or Db is called a piccolo; the instrument pitched in Bb or sometimes C is called a fife. Anything else, is either called a fife or a flute, but there’s no rule, since these instruments are not used very regularly. There used to be marching band flutes pitched in Bb (lower than concert flute) and F (higher than concert flute). The Bb flute is becoming popular again thanks to Matt Molloy and Kevin Crawford. Other than that, there used to be a “flute d’amour” pitched in A (lower than concert flute) in Baroque times. It’s amazing that these lower pitched flutes are even playable; they stretch the design of finger holes to the maximum.
