Care of cotton tenons

My keyless Sweetheart two-piece has a cotton-wrapped tenon. Fits nicely enough. I have been playing for a few months now, and have just recently noticed that condensation builds up and wets the cotton. After about 20 minutes of constant playing, the joint gets so wet that it becomes quite tight. I even noticed one time that moisture was dripping from the bottom of the flute.

My questions:

  • Is this normal with cotton-wrapped tenons?
  • Why is the joint becoming so tight? Is it because the wood is absorbing moisture and swelling? Is there any danger of splitting?
  • Is there anything I should be doing to care for the joint? I swab out the inside of both pieces and leave them out of the case to dry after each session.

Thanks in advance,

Are you using cork grease on the threads before assembling? If not, you should be. It keeps out any moisture and keeps the thread in good shape.

You shouldn’t get moisture then, and if you do, you need to re-thread the joints. Ralph can walk you through that if you email him.

Eric

Second cork grease. Probably though it’s the wood that
is swelling with moisture. It’s possible, though unlikely
with Sweethearts, that this will crack the flute.

One option is to stop and swab the flute occasionallywhile
playing it. There’s a device called a ‘flute
flag’ that enables you to do this almost instantly.

Oiling the flute may also stop the wood from
absorbing moisture.

As Jayhawk says, contacting the maker
is an option–these are swell people.

Finally you might just live with it
and take your chances. A lot of us have played the
hell out of Sweetheart flutes; I’ve never had
a crack, FWIW.

It could very well be the cotton thread swelling up with the moisture, more than the wood. If it’s only taking 20 minutes for the joint to get tight, I would suspect the thread first. Cotton is a very absorbant fiber(think of towels). Cork grease will probably help with that, or maybe coating the thread with beeswax. I read somewhere that synthetic thread is really better for flute tenons than cotton or other natural plant fibers. And that makes sense to me. I know fiber fairly well, being a handspinner, knitter and sometime weaver.

Cheers!
-Kelly

I would not use cotton threads. Ever.
They swell, they stick and I’ve had many a flute come to me with stuck (and cracked) joints.

I’d recommend nylon (or kevlar, which I love).
And…
despite the protestations of a few…
I love using teflon tape over the threads. Makes a perfect fit and a nice seal and smooth assembly/disassembly.

my 2-cents

dm

Actually, Ralph uses a synthetic yarn unless someone has replaced what you have…so it’s not cotton and won’t inherently swell by itself.

Eric

Ah, well, that’s different then.

{Migoya"]I would not use cotton threads. Ever.
They swell, they stick and I’ve had many a flute come to me with stuck (and cracked) joints.

I’d recommend nylon (or kevlar, which I love).
And…
despite the protestations of a few…
I love using teflon tape over the threads. Makes a perfect fit and a nice seal and smooth assembly/disassembly.

my 2-cents

dm

Ditto on the Teflon Love. But where tolerances don’t allow, Clive Catterall suggests cheap polyester thread for rewrapping tenons; I’ve had good success with it.

Cork grease or beeswax/almond oil are excellent lubricant/waterproofers as well.

Spit (or more properly, condensation) happens, and in the case of a flute that leaks air it can actually be your friend – minute cracks or leaky joints swell up and seal. It’s just important to protect the sensitive spots, like tenons, from getting soaked through. And of course, don’t forget to wipe your tenons down after playing!

:slight_smile:

Wit happens too, I see. Neat.

I’m with David Migoya on the issue of cotton, although I do remember hearing secondhand that Nina Shorey always recommended using cotton thread for wrapping tenons…if that’s true it’s quite an endorsement.

My flute has synthetic threads for the main windings. For fine-tuning the fit I use a short length of silk or polyester thread (in a contrasting color from the main windings) that I rub through a piece of beeswax. The beeswax helps the thread stay in place and makes it absorb less moisture. Having the fine-tuning thread a different color than the main windings is important as it allows you to easily spot it and pull it off when the joints start getting too tight.

Different colors is a brilliant idea (mine have just “wound up” that way by accident, but you’re exactly right)! And thanks for the reminder about the beeswax on the thread, too.

Such a smart man.

if memory serves, I thought Nina used (uses?) a hemp thread.
I do believe there is much less swelling involved.

Remember,too, that threading back way-when made use of the best available at the time. That was probably some form of wool. If so, chances are it had lots of lanolin which waterproofs and lubricates.

A thought.

Smart men everywhere!
You guys need jobs?

To give credit where credit is due, everything I learned about thread wrapping came from Bryan Byrne. A truly smart man!

Also I believe Clive Catterall has a lot of good advice on thread wrapping on his website:

http://www.flutes.fsbusiness.co.uk/tenon.html

Thanks for all that useful advice.

I haven’t been greasing the tenon, so that is the obvious thing to do.

One concern I had about greasing the joint - won’t that make it pretty loose? I have seen flutes with pretty sloppy joints, and it makes for an uncomfortably precarious hold on the thing.

I oiled the inside of the flute for the first time yesterday. As soon as I can locate some cork grease, I will give that a try.

PS I have a reel of teflon tape sitting around from a plumbing job that might come in handy if the joint gets too loose.

Cork grease really doesn’t make the flute slide - in fact it makes it a bit firmer because the stuff is more like chapstick in consistency.

I think it’ll help with this issue and prevent any future crack from developing.

Eric

Nope, it will help keep the treads in place and make a better seal.

Wax not grease (for threads). Try searching… there have been some interesting threads about this.

teflon tape is a good quick fix for cork tendons, dental floss for threaded works well.

You don’t need to fuss over cork grease. It’s usually not all that special–when you read the labels of most, it’s just Vaseline. (I think there is a special clarinet kind that is some sort of techno-marvel, but most of us use stuff made by dead dinosaurs and live bees.)

Petroleum jelly works. Someone here has given a recipe for half petroleum jelly and half beeswax.

Chapstick, or any lip gloss, really, works just dandy.

My favorite, though, is still Bol-Wax . . . that completely nontoxic ring of waxy-looking petroleum jelly and urethane used to seal toilet bowls to the drain. They sell for outrageous prices, like about 99 cents at home stores. Thick, tenacious, fills in all the cracks and stays there, removes easily with whatever oil you’re using on your flute (almond, olive, flaxseed).

One extra advantage is that a little residue of Bol-Wax on your fingers really does help you seal the holes. Does this much better than anything else I’ve tried.

That’s the word I couldn’t remember! Bol-Wax

A lifetime supply for a dollar…and your kids, and their kids…
Hardware, plumbing, toilets

Must be a different product name in Australia - I’ll track it down!