I got a new old flute from England today. I have no idea how old it is or who made it.
It’s a four-key and plays quite nicely. I’m very happy with it.
My question is about the joints. It has threaded joints and I’ve only ever dealt with cork. How does one go about re-threading a joint. Do you need special wax or special thread or anything?
Any input would be helpful.
The pictures are still on eBay if you want to see it and have any ideas about origins or anything. The seller was in Shropshire England (sp?).
Hard to tell, but I’d bet rosewood if I had to bet.
Casey Burns uses threaded joints and if you
check his site I think has some info about
this. There are some pretty elaborate
online instructions somewhere, a search might
help. You do want the right thread; however
green waxed dental floss seems to alright
if something must be thrown into the
breach tomorrow. Also any old cork grease
will do temporarily. Casey has better
instructions–I think he’s using ski wax,
again check; possibly phone him.
Nice fellow. Best
dental floss has worked great in the long haul for me. I think that flute started out the first of the year in Israel. It looks like one for sale on woodenflute.com that I nearly bought, but it was away at the local flute restorers and I was impatient and bought another flute.
If it’s the same flute, it sold on eBay, and apparently has been sold again. It was reportedly rosewood, and I think it looks nice.
Baroque Flutemaker Clive Catterall has a very good section on Flute maintenance,including re-threading .
Check out http:// www.flutes.fsbusiness.co.uk/tenon.html
Then take time out to examine his interesting flutes!
Dental floss does what? Scrapes grime from between your teeth which is fine because tooth enamel is very hard. Wood is not not as hard.
If you need to tighten your joints but don’t have the right thread, teflon tape is safe until you re-wrap the tenons. It’s debatable as to whether teflon is safe for regular use. I personally just don’t like it.
Casey Burns uses nylon thread and for wax he uses that stuff plumbers use on toilets. I don’t remember if he gets his thread from Rod Cameron or was just referred to the maker/supplier by Rod Cameron.
You’ll do fine if you get hemp (linen thread) from a bagpipe supplier. When I wrap the tenons on my bagpipe I start with black thermowax (cobblers wax) which is very sticky and melds nicely to the tenon then was the rest with beeswax.
The vondor lives in Ludlow , ( food capital of the world ,from the number of fancy restaurants ) Shropshire .He was disappointed in the price ,in case that encourages you . Over the years I have seen many hundreds or more flutes described as rosewood ,but they rarely have been .Sotheby’s were always the worst offerders at not recognising cocus .
So Andrew, you seem to be acquainted with the vendor. Do you know any history at all on this instrument? I’m curious only for sentimental and bonding reasons.
Also, are you saying the flute is rosewood or cocus? I’m sure I wouldn’t know a piece of cocus (or rosewood for that matter) if it bit me.
The flute plays well, and though the embouchre it wants is different than my keyless, I think we will get along well.
I like to wrap the tenons with a good stout Linen or synthetic thread, such as #00 Reedmaking Thread (available from Forrests Music in Berkeley), and lubricate the thread with Red Ski Wax. This substance is the best thread grease that I have tried. Beeswax, melted together with some Vaseline, can also make a good thread tenon lubricant. Never replace threaded wrappings with cork or wrap them with teflon tape! This will certainly lead to cracked sockets and on my flutes results in a voided warranty. The use of cork wrapping stems mostly from ignorance and laziness! T his material is appropriate on a metal reinforced instrument (both inside and outside of both parts should be metal lined) only. Check periodically for tightness at the joints. If the joint gets too tight, pull it apart and unwrap a few turns of the thread. If the joints are too loose, they may be rewrapped, or a few turns of thread added - waxed dental floss works well for this purpose.
Plus, if you get something stuck in your teeth you can unwind a bit of floss, floss your teeth, and wind it back up! I like my flutes to be utilitarian in nature…
I do know the vendor ,who I believe has not had the flute long .No reflection on the flute- he just liked dabbling .
I didn’t see the flute .I don’t suppose it matters at all if it is cocus or rosewood ,though I suspect that cocus is more liable to split .
I’ve used red ski wax like Casey recomends, and find it way too gooey for everyday use. I’ve somewhat tamed the goo by covering the threads with either cork grease or lip balm of some kind. Most of the lip balms add a nice minty smell to the flute.
I got a spool of reedmaking thread from a shop in Berkeley, CA that specializes in double reed instruments. Can’t remember the name of the place, but a little Google should find it… OK, I found it
This is a question that perhaps Andrew or any of you with more experience with old flutes might be able to answer. Since it hasn’t been commented on as yet, perhaps it shows my ignorance . . .
How common would this kind of flute be for a “vintage” instrument? (I suppose it depends on what vintage.) It’s a short D foot with a key for Eb; this is a flute made to play in D, which wouldn’t necessarily have been all that useful to anyone playing anything but Irish trad stuff. I guess, I’m wondering if it’s not a relatively recent instrument. I suppose no one’s commented on the age, but how old might short D feet be?
The keywork all looks the same, as do the rings and the timber . . . so it’s probably not a replacement piece. It doesn’t look very cocuslike to me, but I’ve only seen quite new or quite old cocus and not much in between.
Dave Migoya told me he has found rosewood to be common in the mass produced German flutes of the late 19th and early 20th century - especially the export ones. Personally, I couldn’t tell rosewood from cocus so I’ll trust Dave that my flute is rosewood.
I recall seeing an old copy online somewhere of the Sears catalogue from the turn of the prior century that had quite a few different flutes from one key to 4 keys to the 8 key models, so I don’t think the D foot was that uncommon for non-orchestral produced flutes.
Since then Casey has stopped using ski wax. It was expensive and the ski season really affected it’s availability. The plumber’s wax is cheap, just as good and lasts for ages.
I must respectfully but vehemently disagree with Mr. Burns:
A) Cork lapping has been used on all wood socket and tennon combinations by many fine woodwind makers for a number of years now, and is at least equal to, if not superior to thread lapping: Ever had your thread lapped instrument somewhere hot during the summer only to find the wax has turned to mostly liquid and oozed all over your instrument? (Sure your instrument shouldn’t be allowed to get so warm, but it happens.)
B) Regarding the laziness factor: A well done cork lapping job will take a good bit longer than a thread lapping job. Thread lapping can be done very well and quite quickly on a lathe running at slow speed.
OTH to cork a tennon one must first measure the cork slot, custom cut a piece of cork, grind a bevel on the cork for overlapping, then cork cement both the cork and the cork slot (twice, allowing to dry between coats). The cork is then applied to the cork slot on the tennon and the overlapping excess is trimmed. The lathe must then be set up for grinding and the cork gound to near the final diameter. Next, while still on the lathe, the cork must be sanded with three grades of sand paper, applying a bevel to each side, and finally any extra cork cement is cleaned from the cork and tenon…not for the lazy, and positively more time consuming than thread lapping.
Part of the charm of this business is that nobody
agrees. At a certain point it becomes lore.
Most every maker has some opinion
that nobody else does.
My own view is that flutes play better
when sprinkled with monkey blood (of course
I don’t make flutes, but still…).
My cork tenoned flutes are fine, don’t you
know–but I don’t take this stuff very
seriously. Best
P. S. I suppose the ‘laziness’ in question
is that of those slothful musicians who aren’t up to
wrapping thread around tenons–which
sooner or later you must do.
I have no idea how old it is or who made it.
